03: Paying (and being paid) properly

Today we're talking about proper payment for services and understanding the true cost of running a business. We also cover the pitfalls of accepting low rates, the challenges of subcontracting and contracting, and the necessity of accurate financial planning including taxes and business expenses.

Number of f*cks given in this episode: 7

Listen to this episode

You can listen to this episode of F*ck Around and Find Out below. You can also listen on your favourite podcast apps, including Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

You can also listen on your favourite podcast apps, including Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Episode transcript

Christine: So, welcome to Fuck Around and Find Out Podcasts. We are your hosts, Rah Emily and Chris, we're three women, uh, who have built and run our own businesses and are here to shoot the shit on everything about women in business and running your own business. Um, Rah, work with Rah. Hi.

Rah: Hi. So, as of today, I am a public speaker because that's all I've been doing today, giving presentations online and face to face.

Christine: And

Rah: so, I'm, to be honest, sick of my own voice, so now I get to share it with all of you guys instead.

Emily: Oh, excellent. Excellent. But when I'm not

Rah: speaking, I'm also doing social media and podcast editing, like

Emily: our

Rah: own, um, [00:01:00] and email marketing and all sorts of digital stuff to help women in particular in their business.

Christine: Absolutely fan bloody tastic, yes. Hey Em, do you want to talk about us and

Emily: Juniper Road? Oh look, Juniper Road is uh, an enigma. No, it's um, a lovely operational support services business, or shared services. Um, we are designed to be your one stop shop. What, uh, everything in one, uh, um, a small business, whether you need marketing, whether you need HR, whether you need finance, we're designed to be able to come in and fill the gaps in your business.

Without having to get multiple agencies involved. So we are an agency, we are women based, we are spread out across Australia. We have a wonderful assortment of girls that work for us, including the beautiful Rah, who does some of her magic. Um, and we are really. All about supporting women and creating a really safe and [00:02:00] lovely community as well, where we can encourage and look after each other and teach each other.

Um, and we just are really passionate about supporting other small businesses and getting them off the ground and getting them the help that they need to just take that extra step. Um, because we all specialize in stuff, you know, but some things it's hard to do the backend admin. I think people forget when they run a business that you actually have to learn how to sell yourself.

You might be really, really good at your specific thing that the business is about, but the rest of the. Like the admin and the day to day operations of the business comes to, you know, from literally reconciling invoices and. your accounting software to social media to having a website like it's it's a huge juggling act it really is a juggling act

Rah: yeah i dropped lots of balls truth be told but yeah

Emily: exactly yeah we all we all do like even in our own business you know we were talking today about the fact i was showing our website to a client that i'm building a website for and he said You know, I had to admit that my own website has the least TLC out of every other [00:03:00] site that I do because it's my own.

And, you know, it's pretty normal like that. And it's one of those things that, um, it's sometimes it's best to find someone who can take that load off you and do what will take you three hours and three minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's true. You know, Chris and I are Juniper Road. We are. one stop shop, ladies.

I gotta stop saying one stop shop.

My brain capacity is very low today.

Christine: Well, it's been, it's been a big week. It's been a big week. It's been, um, a big, um, well, it's been a very big day for all of us, really. You know, Rah, as you say, you have been, oh my God, public speaking, you've been leading groups and training sessions and networking events and This is so over talking.

Hilarious that we're doing this. I know, I know. But you know what, this is what you do. Happy faces.

Rah: It was also my treat. I was like, if I can get through a full day of talking. [00:04:00] And have a bit of downtime when I get home, and then I can jump on and talk to my mates.

Christine: Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is it. This is just us having a, having a conversation, and if we value add, if somebody picks up something worthwhile listening to us, then that, our job is done.

Rah: Yeah. And I always learn from talking to you two anyway. Thank you.

Christine: Thank

Rah: you. Yeah.

Emily: We're notoriously full of hot air. Absolutely. Oh, is that why I like

Rah: you? That's why I feel warm and fuzzy around you. Got it.

Christine: What are we, what are we going to talk about today? What's our general theme for today's session?

Emily: Yeah. I, one of the biggest, pet peeves for me. Um, and I'm sure I've heard a few people out there and it's a, it's a topic. Yes. I have many, many pet peeves. Um, I could be here all day. Um, it's paying properly for your services and charging yourself out. Yeah. And also accepting correct rates when you're contracting in situations like that.

So yeah, it's all about the money. So for those who don't already know, um, [00:05:00] Christine, Rah and I all hail from the virtual assistant. Well, whilst we, none of us actually refer to ourselves as virtual assistants anymore, because we've kind of graduated from that tag, um, the, we do originate from the virtual assistant world and it is a growing industry that is becoming more and more saturated, I think, because of a lot of the flexibility it can offer.

Um. Which is so in need, a lot for specifically women really. There's a lot of, I don't think there's very many men doing it. Um, but you know, we've all at some, in some, in some situations, usually at the beginning, have subcontracted for other people or have been too timid and too scared to charge, to understand how to charge for our services as well.

So it's one of the things I thought would be an excellent topic of discussion is, you know, each of our experiences about Not being out of charge properly or accepting really bad rates, but not knowing about it really all the things to [00:06:00] factor in when you actually do charge yourself out as well, because I think a lot of people forget.

Um, forget that. So that is our topic for this lovely episode that we are conducting.

Christine: Yeah,

Emily: well,

Christine: I think it's a really important discussion piece and, and even in as an extension of, you know, knowing your worth, I see often in the local Facebook community, you know, I'm looking for a plumber. One that doesn't charge an arm and a leg.

You know, I'm looking for something. I mean, none of us want to pay a lot of money because clearly cost of living is humongous. But who am I? Who am I to tell somebody what they should be charging?

Emily: I get so much of it, even like, you know, a lot of my side hustles is cakes. The amount of times I have people be like, Oh, well I want a cake under 150.

Yeah. They don't realize that the cost of goods alone almost covers up, is coming up to 100 just to buy the [00:07:00] ingredients. Let alone the time and effort it goes into making the cakes. Like, it's just so

Christine: unrealistic. Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, really, it's such a, it's an important thing when you've gone through the pain of being, uh, you know, new in the game of anything, you know, we've all got to cut our teeth.

We all newbies, every part of anything new, new journey in our lives. We're new at it. Um, And sometimes you take, take a job, take a piece of work, whatever, and a role because you just want to get started. Um, you know, I know that my very first subcontractor role in the virtual, uh, industry world, um, was a pathetic 25 an hour.

Um, shit money. Can we also caveat

Emily: that with like the base rate, like the base wage. Nowadays for casual employment might be around 26, 27. But that's including tax, [00:08:00] like tax has already been removed from that. So 25 an hour for a subcontractor, you still have to remove your own tax and superannuation.

Christine: Well, well, absolutely.

So I, I was really effectively working for about 15, 12, 15. An hour, but not even that because I'm not even taking out my insurances and my electricity and, you know, and all of that. But I, I took it in a moment of, um, a cross section of panic. I mean, you know, we all panic. I panicked. It was covid, you know, like it was the July, July of 2020.

Um, I'd had to go back and get myself a part-time job because I had a, my client was a travel agent. We all know what happened with travel agents and, and the entertainment industry and hospitality. Um, so my pivot was to get a job. So I suppose, you know, I felt kind of safe with that. But then it's like I really wanted to get started [00:09:00] and it felt the right way to do it was through subcontracting.

But I didn't, I didn't know enough. I didn't have enough confidence. I mean, I knew what I was paid in the corporate world. And I knew what I was being paid with my, my part time job. And it seemed, in retrospect, it seemed really stupid. And self harming, really, um, to take such a lowly paid, um, gig. But it was also, um, there was a huge portion of being used, um, by the then agency to, um, only pay that poor, um, that poor amount of money, um.

And so I know that I've been, it's been really important to, um, you know, pay, um, be paid properly, and to pay properly for services, whether it's, you know, our subcontractors, it's collaborators, [00:10:00] anything, like, you know, I, as I say, I don't know what goes into, you know, you. Being a plumber, I don't know what the cost of a plumber's business and training and experience is, so I can't, I know what I've paid my plumber, Bucky, and you know, and they come and rescue me when my bloody faucet in the kitchen's exploded and run, water's running everywhere, you pay anything, you know, um, for that, but again, I don't know.

So, you know, I, I can't judge. Um, but yes, I think there's a level of a lot of being used, I think, and screwed over.

Rah: Yeah. Yeah. I've been quite lucky in that sense, in that some of my experiences, even like years and years and years ago, I did freelance work on top of working full time. So I did different, which now you call side hustles.

Um, and you know, over those years, I've had people who I was quite happy to charge less, To work with because they were easy to work with, or it was a new gig for me. Like,

Emily: but we all do that, right? Like, especially when you're a web developer [00:11:00] or you're, you're in graphic design, or if you're in anything creative, you tend to need to take some next to nothing or free gigs in order to build your portfolio.

Yeah. And there's a limit to which you do that. Yeah.

Rah: And I think as well, you have to trust your gut to know whether or not someone is actually trying to fuck with you.

Emily: Exactly. And I think it's also to like, to, for me to, I think. My age has played a bit of a part in a little bit of it as well. Um, given, I think there's a bit of ageist ness as well, still.

Like I know now, even with Chris and I, you know, people still consider me to be the hothead young child and Chris is like the mature older one of the group, you know? So we've, we've had instances where people will speak to Chris over me or I, we've had a couple of, not a couple, we've had an instance, instance where, um, someone's basically almost dibby dubbed on me to Chris

Rah: and like

Emily: that stuff's like, you know.

So

Rah: you're the mum of the team, got it. It's a little [00:12:00] bit off the topic of pay, but

Emily: like, I think it applies to the age element as well. And when I was first starting out. Subcontracting. It was also in COVID as well. I didn't even understand the world. I just kind of got approached for something that I had expressed some interest in on a Facebook post.

So I didn't even know what, you know, VAs were or what

Christine: any of

Emily: that meant. And I mean, I would have also continued to be taken for granted. For a ride, if I didn't have someone like Chris who was there, which is actually how we met, who was there, kind of giving me the guidance of, Oh, you need to have these insurances and you should set up a business name and, you know, X, Y, Z, get your ducks in a row so this is how you do it properly.

You know, because I wasn't one of those people that stumbled upon the courses that are out there for those people that want to be VA world. You know, for anyone that's looking, go and see Virtually Yours, or um, with Rosie, or go and see Seed BA with Amy Doerr. Really highly recommend those two. Um, yeah, um, but they, so they have wonderful [00:13:00] courses, but I just kind of, I've never been one to figure out how you do.

I like to, I like to educate, but I also am very much a fuck around and find out kind of person, so I just fucked around and find out. Yeah. Um, but I didn't, like, you don't realize at the time Either like, it was a bit of a reality check for me, I think to the first tax time that rolled around after being a sole trader for 12 months.

And the fact that like you have a cashflow going, but if you're not. properly putting tax aside like Chris does very well, and I'm absolutely fucking shocking at, um, you suddenly have like a 4, 000 tax bill that you gotta pay. And you know, that kind of stuff catches you off guard and then you kind of realize, oh, well, hang on, I'm, I'm, you know.

This money does, isn't all for me. You've got to put it aside. And then you kind of realize that, yeah, and the benefit of working and having your own salary is obviously that stuff is done, pre done for you by your employer. So having to then think about and do it yourself and understanding how to do it yourself and understanding how much to put [00:14:00] aside is really important.

And that kind of coincides with also having a really good accountant. Um, as well, having an advisor or an accountant that can help you get your ducks in a row and make sure you are completely correct. But I mean, there's also some fear with that too, I think, you know, cause it's like, you're very blindingly trusting someone to do the right thing for your business.

And there's, you know, bit of elements of that, there's a bit of fear in that too, but they are the experts in their field.

Rah: Yeah, and I've got, I've experienced both ends of that spectrum in that my first, um, full tax year, I was in denial. I was the ostrich in the sand and just pretended that tax was not a thing.

But then the fear finally, thank God, pulled its, you know, reared its ugly head and I got it all under control and it wasn't as bad as I was expecting.

Emily: Yeah. Yeah. And so now. That's actually like. Yeah. I put everything

Rah: away. Yeah. Like I put. You know, every, you know, I make sure I'm putting the money aside that covers the [00:15:00] tax stuff, a bit of extra to make sure that if there's any big bills that come in, like there's, you know, a bit of, you know, Um, and it's just as sad as it is when I realize how much is going into the account to pay for the tax bill, like I think, Oh, at least I know what's mine.

Christine: Well, and that's the important thing really is just so it's no shock, no bill shock. Um, when, when crunch time comes around. Yeah. Yeah.

Emily: And as you know, like my, my parents would probably love that I'm about to share this, but, um, my dad, you know, had to declare bankruptcy when I was in year 11 because of tax.

Because he was contract working and because we, he had to then manually do his own tax because it was the same concept, you know, you don't, you got to factor that all in. And because we were, you know, realistically probably living beyond our means and you know, the same concept of sometimes bury your head in the sand, it can, it can bite you in the ass very badly if you don't handle [00:16:00] it correctly.

And you know, tax was the big thing. I think in that instance was. Not, we're not putting enough money aside for tax and then not, you know, make it because the ATO also obviously allows you to do payment plans and then it is fairly flexible with how you do pay them back. So they are, they're not going to just demand you to pay all this money instantaneously, but you still have to be relatively smart about it and also deal with it.

Christine: And I think that's um, you know, on the flip side of, you know, paying worth and being paid, um, your worth and being paid properly, um, is about knowing the cost of your business. So it's actually paying for other people's services properly. So if you need to, you know, if I, I will say my business is doing a podcast and I need it all, you know, the recording and the video sorted.

I need to pay, uh, properly for that service because otherwise I don't know the cost of my business [00:17:00] and, and stuff. And, and I know that There's a certain amount, you know, we've all, again I come back to that fact, the cost of living is huge, everybody is cash poor in this world of ours, whether it's business or in your personal life, everyone, majority of people are cash poor, but, um, you know, I'm not quite sure if I'm happy about that whole, I'll do this for you if you do this for me in business, I understand that, you know, there are some circumstances where that might be fine.

But I still think you then still don't know the cost of your business and what I do for you might have a higher value than what you do for me or vice versa. Um, Sometimes it doesn't, that whole tip for tat swapsy thing. I'd rather, I'd rather just pay, I'd rather pay, um, for a service, um, and run it through the business.[00:18:00]

Emily: I think, yeah, I think there's, there's definitely pros and cons to the tip for tat piece. Cause I do think it can quite easily blow out to be a bit taken advantage of, especially if. You know, one service versus the other is not of equal kind of worth or value or effort. Um, as well, like I know, yeah, there's a bit of pros and cons to that.

I have had a few instances where it does work for me. It has worked quite well. And if it's something

Rah: that you want.

Emily: Yeah.

Rah: You know, if it's something that you would not, you're not actively wanting to spend money on. Yeah. It's time to start questioning whether it's really worth doing.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it can be a fine line.

I mean, you know, that's the thing, like there is a space for it, um, but I, I don't think it should be a common, a common thing, you know? Yeah. Um. It's also when,

Emily: like, do you remember back in the day? Do you guys, did you guys ever hear of barter cards? Oh, yeah. The name's familiar.

Rah: Yeah, yeah.

Emily: [00:19:00] Yeah. Yeah. So barter card was like that kind of concept.

You had like their cash equivalent that people could pay and trade in that, but then it was one of those, it was kind of a similar concept of like tip a tap, but it didn't quite, um, And I don't think it quite landed the way you

Christine: No, no, it didn't. It didn't land. It got reinvented, um, several years ago into something else that's, um, um, that's not quite doing very well at the moment, and I don't want to name what it is because I wouldn't hate someone to hear this and say I was, you know, you know, saying the wrong thing on air.

Um, but yeah, so that sort of thing, yeah. I mean, again, yeah. I mean, it has its place, but I don't think it should be a norm. Like, I don't think it's a way to do things constantly because we're all each other's customers and, and service people.

Emily: And there's ways around it too, like, um, you know, Chris and I have been talking about offering our [00:20:00] team, our internal team within our business.

You know, if you, if you'd like some help with social media, or if you'd like some help setting a website up, or if you'd like some help with this or that. will offer you like a really good discounted price that is specifically for our internal team. You know, but it's like, we're still then making sure that we're covering our costs of, of, of time, but we're also happy to take a discount, a much bigger discount on that because, you know, we're also trying to help encourage and foster their businesses, you know, in that instance, it's the same kind of concept.

We will help you, but like for a small fee, but it's still Transaction.

Rah: Because then at the end of the quarter, your accountant is still going, okay, cool. So you were making, you know, you still got your billable hours. You're still getting your invoices, you know, and money coming in.

Christine: Yep. That's right. And oh, yes, you've got a viable business.

You're allowed to continue for the next financial year and you know, that kind of thing. Yeah.

Emily: But yeah, I think it's also, and it's also the thing that [00:21:00] we've, um, I think we've, we've been learning. It's been a process of learning for Chris and I as well, especially becoming a company from individual sole traders turning into a company has been, you know, what you think you're worth.

Then you have to make sure your, when you run a team as well, like we obviously need to make sure that we have enough profit built into the rate that we are charging out at. So we are also making money out of it. Otherwise, what's the point? And then we also, and working out like, Not being afraid of putting the price out there and thinking, Oh God, it's going to be too high.

They're not going to say yes. Yeah. And then being pleasantly surprised when we've had, yeah, okay, that's fine. Um, and then also realizing the thing that always got me with the VA, um, industry, and you two have heard me say this a bazillion times, so it's probably like,

Rah: Oh God, Emily, not

Emily: again. Pretty much. Um, it's the fact that, you know, I have a uni degree that I slaved over and I am qualified and virtual assistant, the word assistant.[00:22:00]

It's so degrading sometimes, most of the time, unless you're an EA, but most of the time. And it's one of those things that I've spent so many years of my life to get out of my goddamn title to then put it back in. People then just go, Oh, like, you know, Chris's examples there. The virtual AI that pops up on the screen of some of these bloody websites now, like they're called virtual assistants and it's the most degrading thing.

And we've got people that are highly qualified and highly skilled and highly trained, and they should be paid accordingly, you know, even regardless of whether you're, that's my other thing, the two with subcontracting. I think there's a very big difference between subcontracting and contracting. So to me, if I am getting someone to do the skillset that, which I already have, so in this case, marketing, whatever else, social media, websites, whatever, websites is probably a bit of a gray area, but that kind of stuff, a subcontractor makes sense.

Because it's a skill set that I can do on my own, but I need the help. So I'm subcontracting it to someone. [00:23:00] If it's a skill set that I don't have, that I cannot do, like some high level automations or, you know, building websites with HTML code, or, you know, a lot of what Christine does, copywriting, proofreading, stuff that is not in my wheelhouse of skill set, that is a contractor.

Yeah. Because they have a skill set that I do not possess and I can't offer them anything. Subcontractor rate. 'cause that's not fair. 'cause they are not, it's not a skillset set that I have. Therefore they are actually bringing that skillset to my business to elevate my business. Therefore, they, they bringing so

Rah: much more value to what you're doing.

Right. They should be paid

Emily: more money. Yeah, that's a really good point. And that's something that I've noticed that the VA in world does not do is they can sell that, that

Christine: definition.

Emily: And so you've got people that are highly skilled coming into teams that are run by people with absolutely no skillset in that area and still being paid.

You know, 40, 45 an hour, which is realistically too low. Like, when you take out superannuation, when [00:24:00] you take out tax, you're left with like 25. It's yours. And it's just like, if you're getting paid 25, anything under 30 an hour is too low realist. Go and work at Woolies. You may as well get, you know, you'll get the same money and you'll have calories while you're at it.

Exactly. In an easy situation, like go get a part time, go get a casual job somewhere. Don't work for yourself for that kind of money because it's just not, it's not enough. It's not. It's not feasible to live off, like cost of living is so high right now. People are really struggling, businesses are really struggling.

I just got another email today from another business that I buy like blanks and, and craft stuff off that they're going under, they've decided to close because they just can't afford it anymore.

Rah: It's happening everywhere.

Emily: Rara and I were talking last night about Christian Hull's business, the knockoff shop.

He's shutting down because he can't do it anymore. Wow. And he's making damn

Rah: good products, like.

Emily: He has, yeah.

Rah: Yep.

Emily: And he's just, and he's also such a like a successful [00:25:00] individual himself. Yeah. But it's, it's too hard for him and he's shutting down. And he's outsourced.

Rah: He's got a, he has a whole business that exists purely to provide products for influencers like Christian.

Yep. And even through all of that, it's not enough.

Emily: Wow. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's the scary thing. So like, you got to pay people properly. Yeah. That's, that's the real crux of it too, is pay people properly, but also understand, do the calculations, work out what your, cause everyone that runs a business needs an accounting system, needs a website, which will comes with hosting and domains, needs an email address, which comes with, I mean, stuff you can work around, but it comes with costs associated.

You need an accountant, which comes as cost associated. You possibly need some other systems and software. So like for what I do, um, what Rah does, we each have systems. That are required to do those jobs like, I mean, it's like Adobe suite, Canva, you know, those kinds of, it all costs money and you need to, and you need insurances for your business.

You need [00:26:00] to cover that kind of, all of that stuff needs to be factored into what you then charge. Yep. Cause you need to cover those costs.

Yeah. Headphones. Yep. Keyboard and mouse. Yep. And my laptop died two weeks

Rah: ago and my literal business is in my laptop. Yeah. It's like, oh shit, I've lost, I've lost my ability to do my job.

Emily: Yeah. And that's, that's like the crux of it, right? Yeah. Your lap, our laptops are. Gotta be

Rah: prepared for that. You

Emily: know, they're gold.

They're our golden.

Rah: Yeah.

Emily: Child. Yeah. You know. Um, you know, thankfully you and I are with, you know. Apple. I don't know if you use the cloud because I have everything back. Oh

Rah: yeah, everything's in the cloud.

Emily: Which is a saving grace. But even like, so saving.

Christine: You know, my son, um, he on, I think was it, yeah, Monday, um, sent me a message in a photo.

He's cracked the screen of his, uh, Macbook. And I, I mean, I, I thought I had Apple Care for it. I did, but I couldn't find the receipt on my OneDrive and, and, [00:27:00] but I was also busy, had my head in other things that day. Anyway. I'm lucky it's not going to cost a lot of money, you know, 150 bucks, that kind of thing.

But what it is, is that he's lost his Macbook for a week while it's repaired, had to fire up a really old laptop that's not even lasting the morning. battery wise, so we can continue. So I'm thinking, oh my God, you know, if that happened, like if I lost my laptop, you know, the, the old laptop sitting on the shelf, it's like, yeah, I don't know if that one is going to fire up, but you know, I know it won't support Windows 11 and all of this sort of stuff.

So there's little, there's little things that are hiccups and, and everything in the, in, in a business, um, that totally throw out your capacity. Hmm. to earn an income. They really do. Yeah.

Rah: And they're all the things that when you're [00:28:00] an employee, that's everything that it's the business's responsibility to make sure.

Christine: That's right. Hello, IT department. Could I please have my laptop replaced? Yay.

Rah: And I'm not taking my own calls because I am now the IT department. Yeah.

Emily: And it's that stuff that all factors in again to, you know, making sure you are bringing in enough money to afford the business, to afford what you're doing and to have a backup plan when stuff does go to shit.

Cause you know, life always throws curveballs at us. Yes.

Rah: And all of this talk, it's not about. It's not being said to scare the pants off anybody, but it's so that you can be prepared,

Christine: like, you know, I think that's,

Rah: yeah.

Christine: It's seriously important, like you say Rah, it's got, this is not shock value, this is not to make it scary and it's not to make people not want to even consider, um, this kind of work as a viable thing.

But it's important to be aware [00:29:00] the transparency is incredibly, incredibly important. On the flip side, it's those stories you see in trainers or at guest speakers or Facebook posts. Listen to my thingamajig and come and talk to me. I'll show you how to do a six figure income in three weeks. You know that kind of thing.

Replace your income and in a matter of moments and all you need is X amount of clients. So it is not about scaring the bejesus off anybody, but it is about Being honest, transparent, and having a clear idea. Okay, it's going to cost me X amount of bucks to set up and do this. And the cost of doing an hour's worth of work is 12.

95 or whatever. I need to earn so and so to be able to put my 11. 5 percent super away, you know? Um, it's just, you know, that kind of stuff.

Emily: Yeah, [00:30:00] I, you know, it's, I can't, can we just talk about the six figure income piece for a minute? Because that is the biggest, I fucking hate it.

Rah: Roll

Emily: my eyes

Rah: every time I see one of those ads.

Yes.

Emily: It's just like, you know, they, it's just so false advertising and it's such crap because, you know, unless you're already connected, like I feel like that might happen for people who are already heavily connected or, you know, come from privilege or affluence or, you know, um, What's the word they use for like the young kids that are actors, that parents are actors?

Um,

Rah: uh, nepot babies.

Emily: Yeah, nepotism, and you know, that, I mean, maybe it works for them in that situation, but it's like, having your own business is fucking hard, and you work your ass off, you know, all three of us have been slogging today all day long. And, you know, I was saying to Chris this morning that I'm actually like, while the meetings we've had today have been really, really good, I'm stressed to the shit for Jesus because of how [00:31:00] much work has come from it and like how much I now need to do that's on my plate, which is a really good problem to have.

But you know, like it, it, you have to work your ass off. Like, you know, I have two small kids and I have so much work that I'm mostly working until, you know, 10, 11 o'clock at night. All day, every day. And I'm okay with that because I know I'm working towards. the things that I want to have, like it's for the right reasons and it's getting me to the places I want to be.

And I'm okay to put the work in. And I'm also very lucky to have a supportive husband who will take over the load of the children overnight because he is in a full time job. He's very comfortable with his salary. So he doesn't, he can just turn off at five o'clock and he will pick up the kids for me. So he knows that, you know, what I'm doing is important and, and allows that to happen.

But, you know, I'm not gonna be waking up tomorrow with six figures in my bank account, like that's just not real. And it's just so such false advertising and I hate it when people think, oh yeah, that person did it, I can do it. Like, let's, [00:32:00] I'll just create a clothing brand, it'll be successful. Piece of cake.

No, that's like, that's not how it works, you know, like you've got to actually put some bloody research into what you're doing. I,

Christine: I, um, I was getting, uh, so my alarm went off. And I'm not really, and I was turning my alarm off, right? And I used the phone next to the bed. And I'm not really a person who then goes and looks at Facebook in the morning, you know?

It's either, well, I either snooze the alarm because I just really can't get out of bed, or I'm up, oh shit, gotta get in the shower before everybody else needs to. But on this particular morning last week, I opened it up, and there was this, you know, video TikTok y reel, whatever it was, and it's killing me.

Before I get out of bed, read this thing and spend 30 minutes getting to Canva. I need to invent something that I'm going to sell two and a half thousand times a day and sell for [00:33:00] 47 each. And I thought, well, bloody hell, it's going to take me longer than half an hour to actually do that. Get out of bed, but I had to do it while I was in bed, invent this thing, and I was gonna make a, I haven't done the math of what two and 47 a day is.

Um, but yeah, I, that's what, that was the suggesting that I do, yes.

Rah: My, um, my niche pet peeve of the people who, you know, say that you can make money without them blinking, you know? Yep. Um, is the people who say you can build a course. Yeah. That's what I think. That's what makes it so special. So we're thinking this is the perfect time to take a break.

Yeah. We're gonna be back in about an hour. So I have to be back in the next 30 minutes. I don't really teachers and they develop courses. That is their full business is delivering courses and you know, it's a lot of frigging work.

Emily: Yeah. Yeah.

Rah: And even if you were to build it on something like Kajabi, which is apparently a brilliant system, it costs a bomb.

Christine: Yes. [00:34:00] Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

Emily: Not sustainable. It's the same thing that like people, I know making the decision to start a business and not realizing that there's actually like Everyone who listens to me for five seconds knows that I'm obsessed with branding. And. You know, it's not like people think branding is like, Oh, this have a logo.

That's cool. They don't realize that there's an entire journey with the brands that you have to go through. And, you know, it's not just, I mean, I used to be one of those people that I was like, I'm going to start a new business, let's build a website. And then I'd be like, now what? Cause that's what I could do.

Side note. That's how this podcast started.

Rah: Yeah,

Emily: pretty much. Yeah. Cause I am that kind of person that just bullies people into it. Um, but you know, like it's, that's. It's that whole concept of you can't just pump this stuff out. Like you, you've got to figure out how to do it. You've got to put the time into it.

You've got to do research. You've got to really sit down and brainstorm. You've got to work out a structure. Like, you know, there's bits and [00:35:00] pieces that some people are quite natural at that kind of things. And some people are really, really not. It's finding the combination of people together that works as well, but also not fooling yourself into goals that are so unattainable.

And that's also where having like a good accountant come into play because they will give you the realistic, you know, you are not gonna make six figures in six months. That's just not real. Like people won't make that in six years sometimes. Like, you know, like it's that reality that you need to kind of have that reality check.

But I just hate the false sense of it. Especially during COVID, so much of that flew around because everyone was suddenly re evaluating their jobs and their lives and whether they ever wanted to be doing what they were doing. And there was so much of that crap that was like, Oh yeah, I might just become an author or write a book or, you know, Oh, I'm going to be an influencer.

Rah: Yeah. You know, I'm going to influence people. As soon as someone in front of me is hanging shit on influencers, like I am not interested in being an influencer. Like I fantasize about the money, but then the [00:36:00] actual work, it's freaking hard to Like, you know, and same with authors, I've, I've, you know, I married a writer, um, thankfully he's not writing novels.

Um, but I've worked with authors for like 10 years and it is hard, even a picture book can take years to write, even though there's only, I think there's something like 46 pages in a picture book.

Emily: Yep. Yeah.

Rah: That's still 46

Emily: pages. Yes. Yep. And that's, you know, it's, it's so much goes into it. And I think people just kind of, and the thing actually, one of the, one of the areas, like, so, you know, social media is one of the things that I love and I, I do, and I, you know, do for other people and I teach, but the amount of people out there that go like, Oh, I post on Instagram occasionally.

Like, yeah, I can be a social media manager. Cool, cool, I can do that. That actually also surprises me as well. I'm sure you'd find people like that too, Rah. There's so many out there that are just like, you know, I've got my own [00:37:00] profiles, I'll be right. Let me offer that as a service to someone.

Rah: Yeah.

Emily: But they don't understand that there's actually a lot of complexity behind each of the platforms.

Rah: Yeah.

Emily: You know, there's different content for different platforms. There's, it depends on the businesses as well, what the business is, what, what it services, where it's located, all of those factors come into play and people just don't really kind of get it either. Um, but you know, we have, we've harped on a little bit.

We

Christine: have, we have, but I, I almost think that we've probably really, you know, covered, um, Most of the stuff really, you know, make sure that you are paying for services properly, make sure you are being paid properly and don't, don't accept low cracky. Yeah. Um, rates and set yourself up properly and, um, yes. And get assistance.

And don't go for that big sky, you know? Yes.

Emily: Yeah. Wake up.

Christine: Wake up and develop a [00:38:00] million dollar business in 30 minutes through camper. Yeah. You know, or whatever other platform and everything like that. Yes.

Rah: Yeah. Yes. That only works for the one percenters.

Emily: That's right. That's right. Yes. I think, and it's also, you know, understand what you're worth.

Yep. Do the correct calculation. Yep. Get the right advice. You know, this isn't, it's working for yourself is, is really, really intense and it's amazing, but you suddenly realize that all the crap you've put up with in a corporate job, this kind of stuff doesn't happen in your own business because it's not that petty high school bullshit that can happen.

It's in fact, you know, It's worth every second of what you're doing and every hard slog that you're doing. It's worth it. So, um, you know, put the work in to set yourself up properly, get, make sure if you're not sure how much to charge, you could do a bit of a, you know, a bit of a SWOT analysis on those areas around you.

You can find out. What other people might be charging, you can scrape websites, you can have a look and get a base rate idea, or you can go and get some business coaching, you know, [00:39:00] we've had a fabulous, um, coach on our program so far, who Miss, uh, Mary Groth from the Groth Collective. Um, so she's a wonderful business coach, you know, get some advice from people like that who, uh, there and resources to tap into, but don't undersell yourself and don't undercharge yourself.

Not absolutely, totally great.

Rah: And think through the cheap price that you may be willing to take on because you think you're starting out, you feel like you don't, you're not worth charging more, all of those things. But think about if you can forego that for a little bit and get A little bit more work that charges more, then it's actually going to balance out, you're going to be earning more money for less time.

Christine: Absolutely Rah, totally, because it's really hard if you, you know, you give yourself out for rock bottom dollar, it's really hard to then get people to pay you worth, um, it's a long journey. You can do it. But it's a long journey. Um, so yeah, totally. So I think we're going to um, [00:40:00] put some contacts to CDA and virtually yours in the show notes.

Um, because if anybody in this game, um, you know, wants to reach out, if you don't have an accountant, you can have a chat about this with, then that's certainly a couple of organisations that you can reach out to and have a conversation and get some ideas, um, you know, around how to price yourself. Yeah.

Yeah.

Rah: So thanks for joining us, everybody. Oh,

Christine: it was good. It

Rah: was

Christine: good. Yeah. Good chat. Good chat.

Emily: Tune in again to, to listen to the rants that continue. Yes. What, what B are

Rah: we going to have in our bonnet next episodes?

Christine: Oh, the list is so large. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. All right, well, until next time, until the next episode, absolutely,

Emily: don't forget to like and subscribe.

Oh, yes. There

Rah: you go. Oh, you're doing the pointy on the video too. Perfect. I don't know if

Emily: it's even going to be down, but like, [00:41:00] fabulous.