04: Being authentic in biz
Today's guest is Sam Ebblewhite, somatic sexologist and intuitive healer. Sam talks generously about her work, including issues like vaginismus and the importance of open s*x education. She also talks about the challenges and rewards of her work as an escort, and we find some similarities in how she manages her escort work and how we manage our own businesses. We finish up with a light (hah!) convo about body image, societal expectations, and personal empowerment.
Number of fucks given in this episode: 9
Mentioned in this episode:
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You can also listen on your favourite podcast apps, including Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Episode transcript
Rah: Welcome to fuck around and find out the podcast. We're your hosts Rah, Emily and Christine. We're three women who have built and run our own businesses and we're here to shoot the shit on everything about women and business and running your own business. Hi Em. Hi Chris. How you doing ladies? So Em, you can do intro first.
Tell us about who you are, what you do. And who you do it with?
Emily: I'm secretly an alcoholic, no jokes. I, uh, am one half of Juniper Road, um, with the other lovely Christine. We are an [00:01:00] operational, uh, support specialist, slash shared services, which basically means we can do everything you need for a business.
It's a one stop shop.
Christine: You love that. I love it. I
Emily: do. It's kind of like, probably losing a bit of meaning the more I say
Rah: it. Um, it makes me want to quote like, Loobmobile or something, like, we do everything. Um,
Emily: but however, we, that does actually mean we can help with everything, you know, from marketing, digital marketing, which does include website SEO, as I get asked a lot, does that include SEO?
Always includes SEO. Um, we can help you with your branding. Logo design, graphic design, social media management. We have a bookkeeping. We can do finance and human resources support, and I can't stop looking at Chris and she's laughing at me. Um, you two are so professional. I know, I'm selling this beautifully right now.
We can do everything, so just come and give us your money. Fridgey, please. Oh, I love this new
Christine: [00:02:00] elevator
Emily: picture now. Chris did. It's really well. You guys practiced this so hard. Please take over, because I'm failing this so
Rah: badly right
Emily: now.
Rah: And so the other half of Juniper Road is sitting to the other side of me, which is Chris.
Hey, Chris.
Christine: Hello. Hello, Rah. Hello. Um, yes, I am the other half and equally awesome half. Um, and really just to, for me, finish off what the lovely M just shared with us. Well, there is that. Um, it's just that we just like to be here and support people. We just like to fill those gaps and fill those needs in operational palaver that all the businesses require.
And having a ball, having a ball doing it. Who are you? Ra? Who am
Rah: I? That's an excellent question. Ferry. Yeah, I ask that myself that every bloody day. So my name's is Rah. I am my own business and I provide digital marketing and systems [00:03:00] support to women in business. I work with a lot of, um, coaches, public speakers, journalists, authors.
I work with podcasters 'cause I do podcast editing, which is. How this podcast came to be and yeah, social media, um, email marketing and automation things with pixels to help grow your reach. is my specialty.
Emily: She's amazeballs.
Rah: Thanks. And we have an extra person here with us today. And it is Sam. Hey, Sam. Hey, lovely ladies.
How you doing? Really good. Thanks for joining us. We're excited
Sam: to
Christine: have you in this space. Been looking forward
Rah: to it for ages. Exactly. And Who are you,
Sam: who, who,
Rah: who, who are you? At a business
Sam: capacity. Yes. Tell us. Because that's why I'm here. Um. In any capacity. Any capacity. Yeah. We could be here for hours.
Um, so [00:04:00] my business is Sam Eberwhite in, I'm a, um, what am I? I'm a somatic sexologist, intuitive healer. Uh, so basically,
Emily: you solve life's problems.
Sam: Well, I can. Like, it's a little bit like, you know, um, how long is a piece of string. But pretty much anything sex, sexuality related, mind, body, spirit, a holistic kind of viewpoint.
Um, and also on the intuitive healing side, basically anything that is kind of holding you back from where you want to be. That's where my passion lies. Helping people clear that shit out. And
Emily: she's so good at it.
Sam: And so how long have you been doing it for? It's been a little bit of an evolution. So, um, Reaching to the converted.
I know all the best places are. So I kind of went on a bit of a journey myself, um, clearing out my shit, um, for like 20 years, ended up finding energy healing and [00:05:00] kinesiology, um, after years of personal development and counseling and talk therapy and all of that kind of stuff. And got to the point where I knew where I wanted to be.
I just kept on sabotaging myself and I just couldn't get there. And so, um, Through kinesiology, I cleared out emotional stuff that I was carrying in my body. And, um, a beautiful kinesiologist that I used to see is also a psychic, and her guides showed her a vision of me doing healing work. And so when she hosted a kinesiology course called Applied Physiology, she said to me, I think that you should come along.
So I tried the first module. And it was the first time ever in my career I felt like I was doing what I was meant to be doing. That's awesome. That's so life changing. So I fell a little bit in love with that. Um, but I always felt like my practice was going to have a sex therapy component because [00:06:00] Um, in my 40s, I'd been on a little bit of a journey exploring my sexuality.
Um, I'd always been comfortable talking to people about sex and sexuality, and people would come up and ask me questions. So, I always felt there was a calling in that area. And, um, and that was when I found my Sexological Bodywork course. So, it's been a really interesting evolution basically since November 2021 when I started my kinesiology training.
adding different components of the kinesiology and then doing the sexological bodywork training, um, and then I've also done some specialist training in working with vaginismus, um, But yeah, trying to kind of piece all of those things together and package it up and present it to the world. Um, and even working out how, how I actually pull all these pieces together to work with clients.
So it's been interesting. It's like a little puzzle. Oh my goodness, so [00:07:00] much, yeah. Of the non traditional ways that you can help people. 100%. Yeah,
Christine: so it's really in that holistic sort of healthcare and well being sort of framework, really. I'm an Can I presume that, you know, you might start off with a client, you know, dealing with some kinesiology healing type of thing, but it might morph into or you might identify that they need something else?
Um,
Sam: originally that was how I wanted to work. So it was like, okay, someone will come in for a kinesiology session or someone will come in for a somatic sexology session. But when I started doing my case studies, I was like, actually, I don't want to work that way. Like, I, a lot of my story was that I tried to fit into a box for, for a lot of years, and I don't fit into a box.
Um, I suspect. I suspect you ladies don't fit into the box either. And don't want to. Correct, correct. And the box is big enough for me. So the way I choose to work now is someone [00:08:00] presents with a something that they want to work on, whether it be maybe, um, their body image or maybe more intimacy within their relationship.
And then we look at where are they now? Where do they want to be? And then I've got this whole box of tools that I pull from and the idea is I can't do it for them. Like if I could wave a magic wand and make everything wonderful, I would, but I can't. So the idea is that I'm their running partner. You know, I've got these tools to help support them.
I am their cheerleader. I hold their hand along the way, you know, and we work through getting them from where they are now to where they want to be. And for some people, that actually is even working out where they want to be. Sometimes that's the first step.
Emily: For those playing along, can you tell
Sam: us exactly what vaginismus
Emily: is?
Sam: Vaginismus is, the definition of vaginismus is involuntary muscle contraction of the vaginal muscles, particularly with [00:09:00] penetration. Now this can be with or without pain. So a lot of women suffer from vaginismus and it goes, um, incredibly, um, misdiagnosed or undiagnosed. And my belief system around it as well is that a lot of the conventional treatments actually feed into the problem.
So I believe Vaginismus comes from a place where our body's security system goes into hyperdrive. So whether it be that we have tried to have sex when we weren't ready, um, whether we've got sexual trauma, there's been some history, um, or some people are just, are fearful around it, they don't, they're not connected with their bodies, so it's something that they've always suffered from.
Now a lot of the conventional treatment involves things like using dilators. Um, and my belief system is when our body's in heightened security state, when you're trying to shove things into it, it's only going to further, um, [00:10:00] heighten that security state. So, um, yeah, it's something I'm quite passionate about because I actually think a lot of women are suffering, um, from this.
I
Christine: have a beautiful girlfriend, um, of many years and had, I don't know if I would say had or has, I don't know if, you know, if it's something, is it something you cure or is it something that you live with and just manage? Um, but I recall, um, The struggles that she had, if I said maybe 20 years ago, um, of trying to find, um, specialists, um, treatments, stigma, dreadful stigma, and the attacking of her self esteem, um, newly married, um, feeling like she was failing, All of that, failing her husband, who he, and felt that it was his right to have sex, and she couldn't, um, and a dreadfully taboo subject.
Oh, and the flow
Sam: on effect is massive. So you think [00:11:00] about, you know, you get a lot of, um, cultural challenges as well, especially in, in cultures where you don't have sex before marriage, and we don't talk about anatomy, and we don't talk about our bodies, and so then they get married, and it's just assumed that, You know how to have sex, and of course they don't.
Um, and so that both of them feel like they're failing. And then you have all this enormous pressure from families about when are you going to have a baby. Now, if you can't have penetrative sex, you can't fall pregnant, and it's just an absolute nightmare. So, um, and the shame, you know, the woman's shame because she feels like there's something wrong with her body.
The man's shame because, you know, especially if they, he hasn't come from a place where you taught
Emily: about,
Sam: you know, sexual education and how to help each other. It's just, it's just a nightmare. I, um, I had
Emily: a, um, story told to me by my obstetrician when I was, um, having my second child. And he was saying about the, he's also an [00:12:00] OB GYN, and he was saying about all the kinds of people that come in to see him for help getting pregnant or whatever else.
And he said there was this couple that came in, they were trying to work out why they weren't falling pregnant. It turned out that, um, Wrong hole was the, was the big one and they did not understand that that, and that was just like that poor lady as well. Like, if that has no sexual understanding whatsoever and like, oh, it's just, I just was kind of like, wow, like, it's just a bit mind blowing.
You kind of don't realize how,
Sam: like, people just don't talk about it. When, when I did my vaginismus course, um, my coach, she's Singaporean Chinese, um, amazing lady. But. It was fascinating, the different cultural stories. So, you know, I grew up Australian, Anglo Saxon family. My mum's Australian, my dad's English.
My mum was a nurse and a midwife, so. You know, we had really open conversations about sex and sexuality and body and, um, but so many people don't. And there's, there was a part in my course [00:13:00] about teaching women where to find their vagina because it's just not known. Um, so. It's something, um, I'm quite passionate about because it actually can cure the, I think, um, I don't like to use that word, but, but it's a condition that can be helped and you can actually go on to have a fulfilling sex life.
I
Emily: feel like even now, still, like, I don't, I'd like to think I'm not that old, but my, even my generation is still, like, we're more liberal and open than any, like, older generations were, but I still have friends that have come and asked me questions because they don't know. All have. You know, we, we're still fairly closed and like, I can't remember having any distinct conversations with my mum, like the thought of that makes me kind of cringe slightly, but you know, I don't remember having conversations with her about, you know, sex, safe sex or anything like, like we learned it all at school, which was all awkward in itself, but like, I don't remember having conversations with mum about it.
Sam: Safe sex conversations at school, [00:14:00] the bulk of it is about don't fall pregnant. Um, I overheard a conversation with a young, very attractive girl at the gym that I thought would have been very sexually aware. And that was me projecting my thoughts and beliefs onto her. Um, and she was explaining that she was going away and she was going to have a period and she didn't know what she was going to do on this cruise.
And I was like, well, have you ever heard of sponges? And She said to me, I'm too scared to even use tampons. And I was just mortified. Um, not that I think everyone should have to use tampons, but I do feel like every woman should be comfortable enough in their body. That they make a choice based on what they want, not based on a fear and a misunderstanding about their body.
Like, I think, you know, empowered, informed choices are so important. I won't
Emily: lie, I've never once used Ampon in [00:15:00] my life.
Sam: Oh, bless.
Emily: Yeah, but I think it's also the education piece, like, no one ever, my mum never showed me. My mum Well, I hate that I'm talking about her about this, but well, I don't think she, like, she never did either.
I don't, so I think it was just, I'm going to be like, Oh God, when it's my turn for my daughter. Cause I'm going to be calling you.
Sam: We can have conversations about this, but I'm grateful. Like my mum. That's
Christine: aunties come into play. Someone come and help me. My mum as a nurse. That's it. That's right. My mother's, um, sex education was over the, um, washing up at night time.
I jokingly used to say at the time, any future children I had, I was just going to palm them off to my mum to do it. But of course, um, owner of, you know, 17 year old and my eyes were completely opened. He'd come home from school and primary school and tell me what, you know, all about my period. It's like, Oh, thanks doll.
You know, that kind of thing, you know, it's very different to what, you know, what I'm used to. You know, happened in my time. So it's just that need, um, to be open, to be [00:16:00] educated, informed. And like you're saying, make choices that are appropriate for you and only you. And the reality is as parents.
Sam: If we actually don't have the information, how the hell can we pass it on to our kids as well?
So, like, the fallout of this, and this is what I'm so passionate about, you know, as a mum of three, a daughter and two boys, I have a very open relationship with my children discussing this. Probably, like, far end of the spectrum and sometimes I do like to push the boundary. It's impressively open. A little bit, um, and I recognise that's not appropriate for everyone, but a lot of parents don't even, um, have the tools or the information themselves.
So how do you, how do you educate your children with information you don't have?
Emily: You know, I look at my, my situation again too, my husband's like nine years older than me. So it comes from another generation in itself as well. And I think the thought of him having to have these conversations with our kids will make his skin crawl because it's so awkward and uncomfortable and he's just not, it's going to be me that will be doing it.
Let's be honest, everyone's laughing because [00:17:00] all you guys know Ben, but you know, it's, it's not, And I can't imagine how his parents had that conversation with him either, you know? But I look at the younger kids, like I've got young neighbours around me who are in their 20s that make me feel monumentally old.
But these, like, I feel like the younger generations now are so much more free. With them, so they're a bit more, I mean, you're giving me a face, Sam, which makes me think I might be wrong, Bea, but I feel like they're more at least open about it.
Sam: I think there's permission to be more open. I don't think everybody is, um, but I definitely, and I think, like, I think about how my mum was with us growing up, I'm blessed that we had that openness.
I suspect her nursing background helped, because nurses are usually pretty loose. Um, but I suppose if you think about, say, that situation, That you were talking about. My passion, I don't think we should feel uncomfortable talking about sex or our bodies or puberty and obviously, you know, you have to be age appropriate when talking with your children.
But my wish would [00:18:00] be to create a space where, you know, I can help parents feel comfortable to have those conversations. Help people be able to talk to their husband or their friend and without, without that discomfort.
Emily: And I think too as a woman, you know, as a young girl growing up and having. Your first ever sexual experiences.
I think You need some knowledge behind you before you even go down that path. Otherwise it just is not, I remember the very first time I had a sexual experience with a guy and I was 13 and which just gave me a look like, wow, that's fucking young. I didn't know that.
Rah: What? That was a thing at my age at 13, but I do know other people who, you know what?
It is
Emily: scary how young it's happening now too, but I had no clue what the hell was going on. And I, I pretty much. I, I would, I think I reacted as if I had been traumatized and so, and like, it's also the element of, Oh, but I want the boys to like me. So you just kind of get on with it and you just like it.
And so girls don't understand what it means to actually enjoy anything [00:19:00] as well until much, much later until they've finally feel comfortable enough with someone or have the information and the knowledge. To be comfortable enough to ask for what they want or even know what they want.
Sam: But boys don't either.
So we live in a world where there's so much accessibility to porn. And it's so fake. And so it sets these expectations and it sets these benchmarks. And I remember when we were doing, When I was doing my sexological bodywork course and we were talking about the difference between arousal and, and um, and engorgement and a woman's body preparing for sex.
So a lot of women, it requires 45 minutes of arousal before they're fully engorged and lubricated and able to have pain free sex. Can
Emily: someone tell
Sam: that to every man on the planet? Well, I'm not all women like that, so pretty much you can just touch me and I'm ready to go. But, um, good to know. And I actually, and it was something I discovered when I did my course as well, I [00:20:00] actually don't need to be aroused to be engorged.
My body is just, you know, Um, you know, nowhere, nowhere in sex education at schools are girls or boys taught this. Oh, most parents wouldn't know this. So how can you, how can you inform young people where, and then they've got both males and females watching porn where. They don't know that there's a fluffer behind the scenes, or that the guy's, uh, penis has been injected so that they can stay hard and they can fuck for however long, or that there's people that come between and wipe so that you don't see the mess and, you know, they create this world that's not real, and these young kids are Thinking that's what sex and sexuality is.
And there's a place for porn, but it's just not, it's not It's not for educational purposes. Yes.
Emily: But it also, I think, you know, as someone who is not a small human being, definitely plus size over here for people, but it fucks with your confidence as well. Because you don't look like [00:21:00] that, you know? You don't look like these little girls that are skinny and hairless and don't have love handles and fat rolls and places to grab a hold of.
And so I think it,
Sam: you're not exploring porn properly because there's porn in
Emily: all shapes and sizes. I know there is, I know there is, but like mainstream? Yeah, and it's, but I feel like it's also like a confidence thing too because you, you know, these boys, the guys are all watching that and it's like, well, is that what you're going to expect me to look like?
Cause I sure as shit don't look like that. You know? Yeah. Excluding the fact that I've created two human beings inside me, so anyone else that can't say that can just get fucked. But I have to keep reminding myself of that, you know? You know what I mean? Like, it's that whole, I also wasn't a small person as a teenager, like, I've been, you know, five foot seven and, alright, yeah.
And, um, you know, broad shouldered basketball player for my whole life, I haven't been small. I was skinnier, but I haven't been small, and that's been, like, my biggest piece is the self confidence. Yeah, and look, that's been my journey too,
Sam: because I'm the same, so, I'm about the same height, I've [00:22:00] never been a petite little flower, nor would I would murder people to
Emily: look like you.
Sam: Nor would I ever be, but I, but everyone battles their own body image and their own self image and, um. It's hard when you're a teenager. It's hard when you're an adult. True. As a woman who. You've got more logic behind you though. More life experience. I would like to hope so, but I don't think it stops the voices.
If you don't do the work on yourself. Sometimes those voices get worse because you've got more things. You're in a marriage where you feel unloved and unfulfilled. And every time you look in the mirror and you've had two kids and you've put on a bit of weight and your body's not what it was and you just hate on yourself a little bit
Emily: more.
Oh, I definitely feel that. And I think you also start looking for validation in wrong places sometimes too. Yeah, it's a whole basket of kettle fish that one. Oh my god, so many baskets of kettles of fishes.
Rah: So if you want some tips or places to look for a bit more body posy type stuff There's an old blogging mate of mine called Melissa Walker Horne.
She had a [00:23:00] blog called Sugar Coat It, S U G E R, because she didn't know how to spell sugar. Oh god, that's so good. I love it. It's the funniest story I love, Mel. Um, she has a, um, she had a series for a while called Confident U, that was really helpful for me. Um, and also a British chick called Megan Jane Crabb.
And she's gone through all extremes of body weight, like she's had, um, anorexia and like, she's gone through the whole gambit. Um, and following both of those people over the years has been really helpful to improve my own confidence. Um, yeah. And then Florence, um, given as well, she's skinny, not going to lie.
Um, but she's got such a feminist mindset of, Like she's literally got a book. We're not here to make you, not here for men. Yeah, we're not here to be pretty for you. Like fuck off. Yeah, and like she's in her early 20s and is like super loaded because she's just got this [00:24:00] amazing ability to communicate that information on her socials, but now has books out and stuff.
Oh fabulous. And she's yeah, she's Well come and
Sam: see me, because this is my passion, this is my, my journey, um, so I used to talk about being the best I can while loving myself as I am, because I didn't love myself, and I didn't love my body, and then I'm in this unique position now. Um, where because of my escort work, people pay money specifically for my body, which is this, it's this funny journey.
So I've got lots of tools and lots of techniques to kind of work on that too. You also
Emily: don't have a four year old that likes to smack your tummy in because it jiggles.
Sam: I've had that. I've had that. Yeah. Kids. Yeah. Reality. Reality bites. She was doing it last time. Reality. Would you stop it? But you know, but you want to know something though.
So she does that in a space of pure innocence and love. So for her, there is no [00:25:00] malice in that where the issues come from is what it brings up in you. Yeah, I know.
Emily: And I'm trying really hard. Um. Yeah. Because, like, my son, my older son, has, um, is at school, and one of his friends is in love with this little girl at the moment.
But she started to get bullied at school, which is scary for a year one child. And she's not a small kid, she's tall, but, like, she's a child. And she's being called chubby and fat and everything already at school. And she's not dealing great with that, because it's affecting her. And they came over for a playdate, and she kind of, she's throwing the word around very casually.
Because I think it's making her feel better, having it out there. And so then my daughter started picking up and being like, But yeah, I'm chubby and cute. And I'm like, I don't like those words. Like in my house, I'm like, don't call each other fat, that's not nice. Don't call each other chubby, I don't like that either.
And she's like, well why can't we say that? And I'm like, because it's not, and like, you're not. And it's not a very nice word and it can make people feel bad. But I'm like, this girl, the kid's [00:26:00] four, my kid's four. And she's already picking up, and also girls are disgusting. Terrible at that, but picking up this stuff,
Christine: I think, um, you know, like my son who I've mentioned is 17 and every so often he gets on a bit of a bandwagon at home.
So I'm, you know, in my a standing, we would call me a esque person. I love art. I love Ruben's, the painter. I, I love that too. And I'm a Ruben esque woman and have been since I hit puberty.
Emily: For those, for those of us that don't get what that means.
Christine: It means that I've got all the right curves in all the right places.
Ruben is a
Sam: beautiful artist and it was all
Christine: curvy, big
Sam: bottomed. Yeah, right. The real stuff. Not necessarily busty.
Christine: No, but really busty actually. Good handlebars. So I, um, would always say I was Rubenesque, um, and of course the husband, um, You know, we're older. My [00:27:00] son would go on a rampage and, you know, so he's, he comes from big stock is what I'm sort of meaning.
So he's no skinny thing. He's six foot, you know, young age and he's broad shoulders because his parents are, but he'd go through. And I don't buy a lot of shit and crap and foodie and everything in the house. My husband can't help ice cream and apple pies and stuff, but I'll have a pension. I might buy it, eat it, but my son went through the cupboards once and threw out Shit he could find, you know.
And it wasn't because he thought his parents were fat. It's he was more motivated because he wants them to live a long time. God
Sam: bless his
Christine: cotton socks. And I, and it buried down, that came out very quickly. It was about health longevity. Um, for him, not about having a skinny parent. And I love that.
Sam: And we talk about that at home as well.
Yeah. So my, my youngest is a little bit cuddly. Yep. And he's neuro spicy. But we talk, he'll say, I don't [00:28:00] want to be fat, Mum. And we're like, let's focus on health and the rest will take care of itself.
Christine: Absolutely. Absolutely. I've got an endocrinologist because I have type 2 diabetes, like, you know, millions of people in the world.
And I went in for my appointment recently. And. I put on four kilos. I was a bit devout because I feel like I've been doing really good, I'm very conscious about what I eat. She was doing a happy dance, bells and whistles, bouncing off the walls because my blood work was awesome. It was the best it had been in three years.
So I thought, you know what, that's the win, that's what I'll take. So what I put four kilos on, but my blood work and cholesterol and everything was just fabulous. So. You know, it's it is it's about the thinking and the health. Yeah.
Emily: Yeah. I know we deviated slightly But I'd like you to expand more on the escort stuff if you don't mind.
Okay. Um, that's quite interesting It's been as a business model. Yes. Yeah, actually
Sam: it it it's fascinating as a business model. Um [00:29:00] Because if you think about the fact that what you're selling is yourself um It's amazing for your worth and knowing your value, um, and being able to assert boundaries, um, and also, um, you know, negotiations and communication and all of those things.
So, um, it's something I've been doing, uh, it must be coming up to about four years now. So I've gone through stages in my life where I've been quite promiscuous. So I had thought about it in the past. But I'd always had concerns that if someone was paying for a service, where would my boundaries lie? Um, and so after, um, my second marriage dissolved and I started exploring and I was exploring my boundaries.
particularly sexually anyway, um, the curiosity kicked in again and I [00:30:00] used to follow a high profiled escort named Samantha X on social media and I really liked the way she talked about clients and the, the, um, interactions that she had with them, um, and it was not what I thought it would be. So I reached out to her, um, she was working at the time, she's no longer working and she used to have a.
Um, a website platform, um, called, um, with her private angels. And so I applied to be a private angel under her. So I worked privately, but on her platform. And I also did a mentoring session with her. Um, and so it's been a really fascinating experience. Uh, there's some times where, um, I just think it's amazing.
Um, I've, I've got some beautiful clients that I've had amazing experiences with. I see. And ways that you wouldn't necessarily think about it. Um, [00:31:00] most of the time it's actually not about sex. Yeah. Um, people want to feel loved and want to feel appreciated and they want intimacy in their life. Um, and I acknowledge it's actually something that most people can't do because when I work, um, I'm very real and I love to connect with people.
Um, so it's a very genuine experience. And I'm the kind of person that can, um, share that time with a person and then walk away, um, and get on with my life. Um, whereas a lot of people can't disconnect and reconnect. So, um, yeah.
Rah: Interesting. What I love about the way you talk about it too, Sam, is, um, You're breaking the mould, which I think you do in more than this area.
In many ways. By you being so open and talking about it, even in sort of more group settings, not in an orgy sense, but you know, in front of other women, [00:32:00] um, and you're just making it like you're normalising it and that some people that's either a choice for employment, they're not doing it because that's the only way they can make money and they're going to be homeless if they don't.
do escort work or any form of sex work. Um, but then also showing that, you know, it is a normal part of society that people are going. And there's like a money transfer for that activity. Yeah, yeah. I'm just going to say it. For fucking. But do you know what? It just normalises it.
Sam: So I trade my time for money.
So I don't, I don't charge my services. And a lot of my, and I create experiences. And a lot of, particularly high end girls, and not to disrespect other girls, but they're, they're different, um, types of service providers and different levels of service. Um, I went into this work. As a mature aged woman, I was in my 40s, um, I had three [00:33:00] children, um, I married and divorced twice, um, I was not supporting any habits, I was completely informed when I went into the work.
I have a whole heap of life skills behind me, communication skills, I'd walked in, worked in a corporate job, but for me it gave me choices. Apart from the fact I love sex and I love connecting with people and I love that interaction. The money is phenomenal. So for me, at the time I was working full time when I started escorting, I could do two hours of escorting and replace a full week's worth of work.
Wow. So it gave me options. Yeah. Choices and options. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. There are times where it's really hard work and it can be, it's for me, I've never found it physically draining, but it can be very emotionally draining. And you have, and you have hiccups, you know, like, I have a beautiful man in my life.
We have an open relationship. But you know, I was laying in bed with him when I got the [00:34:00] call from the sexual health clinic in December to say that I had gonorrhea. Um, so you know, there's, there's things that are not fun about the process.
Rah: Workplace health and safety is a tad different in your, in that branch of your business.
Completely, completely.
Sam: It's been interesting, you talked about me being open about it. Um, it's progressed because, you know, I work under a different name. Um, but before I started working, I spoke to my kids about it and I spoke to my ex husbands because People can use this kind of thing against you. Um, there are massive stigmas around it.
When I started working, I was turned down by two banks on moral grounds, um, even though I was running a legitimate business. Um, who are they to judge? Exactly. And, um, The bank's been f*cking us for years. Well, and tell me how many, how many criminal organizations are they not supposed to be supporting But
Emily: sure, you
Sam: do this
Emily: for money, [00:35:00] but
Sam: cool, cool.
You can't have nothing. Oh my god. So, um, it's been interesting, I think. Wow. So obviously, I keep it away from my kids, but they know what I do, which means I can be honest with them about it. Um, but, and it takes away power for anyone to use it against me. Yep, so important. But what I found is, because I'm comfortable in my choices, and I find people are just curious about it.
Oh yeah. Because, um, it's fascinating.
Emily: Yeah. You piqued my curiosity the moment you mentioned it. I was like, tell me more. What is this all about?
Rah: And what I found interesting and what you were just talking about is how I was automatically thinking about how what you're doing in that line of work mirrors my experience of like working at, Am I charging for my time?
Am I charging for the services I'm providing?
Christine: What are your boundaries with applying? I mean, that's always, for me, boundaries with my time has always been a great challenge. And it [00:36:00] doesn't matter what you
Emily: do. It's all service. It's all providing some form of service. Yeah.
Sam: Yeah. And it's, and it's really interesting.
Um, because if you think about escort work, you're giving everything of yourself potentially to a person, um, and so, but you still get people where, you know, so I've, I've learned something to be really clear about my rates. Um, because I've, I, I look at where I compare in the market. Um, I look at my rates for the services, the level of service that I offer and based on feedback I've received from people.
I know how high my level of service and my rates are very reasonable. So, even though like it's still stupid money. In the marketplace, I'm very reasonable. And I laugh, because you'll get people that will, when you tell them your rates, they'll be like, oh, um, that's a bit much, you know, would you accept this?
And I, and I'm like, no. Um, there, there are plenty of other people that with cakes wouldn't learn
Emily: anything
Sam: else. Like yeah. There are plenty of other people that will offer a service for the same price. Yep. [00:37:00] Um, I understand price, but you know, you go, but I like you, your pictures excellent. Then you pay that price.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, and because I know where I sit. In the market, and I, and I've had enough feedback, um, and conversations with people to know, I suppose, how I compare with my, my other competitors. Um, not that I'd like to compete, but, but I know where I'm at, so I'm very comfortable in asserting my boundaries with that one.
Christine: Oh my God, I find this interesting. It's, it's, I know. I've lost all track
Rah: of time. I know.
Christine: And we've fully deviated. What script? I don't see a script.
Rah: Yes. But it's just so interesting. But I think the standard questions that we would have been asking you, you inadvertently answered. I think so. Which, you know, it's very clear as to why you do what you do, like where that passion lies.
Like, yeah, a hundred percent. What's
Emily: one piece of advice you'd give other women who might be interested in any of the elements of your work? And what, like, how would you advise them to? [00:38:00] Start or to talk to you all that kind of
Sam: stuff. My biggest piece piece of advice is you can't do it by yourself so Reach out to people that are doing what you want to do no matter what it is Business is fucking hard.
Yeah, I'm trying to do it by yourself and Even sometimes just being able to know that you're not alone in the challenges that you face so With my escorting work, I've always worked privately so I I haven't got massively involved in the community. A community that's, um, largely based in women who are competing can be a bit bitchy, and it can be a bit nasty.
Um, but I've been fortunate. I have some beautiful contacts. I've worked with a male escort who introduced me to some other people. Um, because even in that world, sometimes you need to bounce off peers that understand what you're going through, and you need to, you have a [00:39:00] situation where you need to reach out to ask for advice, just kind of sounding bored, even to process if you've had a bad experience, because it's not always fabulous, um, But in any kind of business, you need, you need that support.
You need people to bounce off. You need to feel like you're not alone. Um, cause particularly if you're going out in business for yourself, um, it's, it's really quite hard cause you're trying to wear all of the hats. So that's my biggest piece of advice.
Rah: I love it. Yeah. That's a good one. That's very much now, Chris.
Yes. You've got a question you'd like to ask.
Christine: Oh, I've got my favorite question. I like to ask, um, Sam, if I gave you a box that had all the things that you had lost in, throughout your life up to this date in time, um, what would be the one thing that you would like to take out of that box? It doesn't have to be a person, it can be a thing, it can be a [00:40:00] memory.
It's just one thing and, um, you know, why is it important? This one's so easy. Um, it would be my mum. Good answer. You don't have to explain.
Sam: Yeah. And mum and I had a tumultuous relationship. But you missed your mum. And look, I, um, I'm very spiritual and I can actually connect with spirit, so I often feel her with me.
And, um, it's beautiful because mum carried her own insecurities and her own baggage and My belief system is when we pass, um, all of that human stuff gets stripped back so she can love me now in a way that she couldn't when she was on earth. But that would be what, that would be what I would, that would be what I would bring out.
That's a
Emily: really nice mindset. Strip away
Sam: all that, yeah. Yeah, it's, um, but yeah, she would be, she would be what I would pull out of that ball.
Emily: Lovely. Really good answer.
Rah: So, Sam, thank you for joining us. thank you. And, where can we find you [00:41:00] online? I'm thinking specifically, let's talk about your kinesiology and energy healing etc.
work as opposed to
Sam: the other work. Even if you, so, say you wanted, so the easiest way, um, I'm in the process of updating my website. Oh, that's an exciting project. Hard. Sam applewhite.com au. The link in the show notes. Yeah. I've got Insta, um, which is really out of date 'cause I'm useless at doing that, but that's all part of the process.
Sure is. Especially when you're neuros spicy. Oh my goodness. Mm-Hmm. . Um, that's why you've reached out to lovely ladies such as yourself for help. That's right. There's one stop shop. I know, right? Bring it on baby. But also, um, my mobile number so that can all be put in the link. Oh, great. Yep. And then any questions about my other hat?
Even if you message that through, I'm quite happy to pass those on that way. Brilliant. for
Rah: joining us today.
Sam: so much for having me.
Rah: And a special thank you as well to the Bella Vista hotel, which is where we're recording our podcast from [00:42:00] today. And, um, yeah, thank you for listening. And if you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and maybe even share the episode with your friends, especially today's episode, since it was a It's a very important conversation that I think isn't happening often enough.
Um, so yeah, so, um, be sure to check the show notes for any of the references and names and URLs that we've mentioned in today's episode. Um, and also the links to follow us online. So thanks very much and we'll see you next time. Bye. Bye ladies. Peace out. Insert the
song. Hey. Huh?
