What it takes to own the title of entrepreneur
Holy shit, today's guest is a fucking powerhouse! Meet Adrienne Donnelly, the reluctant 'ultimate entrepreneur' (yeah, we gave her that title and we're sticking to it).
This badass runs multiple businesses like a boss, including Organised by Adrienne and Newcastle Virtual Assistants (which she runs with Jane Elkholm, one of our epic guest from 2024). And because apparently sleep is optional, she's also smashing it on various boards and business networks.
Adrienne talks about the reality of the entrepreneurial rollercoaster - from pricing (and why you need to charge more), to firing clients who don't serve you, to the nitty-gritty truth about running multiple businesses without losing your mind.
Since we recorded this episode, Adrienne's gone and added another business to her empire - Seed Virtual Assistants. Because apparently being a total legend wasn't enough already!
If you're wondering if it's possible to run multiple businesses without cloning yourself, this episode is for you.
Number of fucks given in this episode: 9
Mentioned in this episode:
Adrienne's podcast, The Bold Platform
Jane Elkholm's episode "ADHD in Business"
David Rosenthal's episode "Money talks: The non-boring guide to business finances"
Transcript
Christine: Welcome to Fuck Around and Find Out, a podcast for finding your way through owning your own business. I'm Chris. I'm Rah. And I'm Emily. Woohoo! Excellent! So, ladies Um, fun factoid, something a little bit different. How about we find a theme? You want me to kick it off? Yeah, go for it. Kick it off, fam.
Emily: Um, we kind of decided to talk about weird and crazy dreams.
Um, and I was telling a story just before we started recording about a recurring nightmare dream that I've had since, I can't even remember, since I was really, really little. And it's very specifically about my family in a car on a road that is surrounded by water on either side, but not just like river or lake.
The sea, the ocean, the big bad blue and getting swept off it by a tidal wave. Tidal waves have been a recurring theme a lot of my dreams for as long as I can remember. So I actually, and like, you know, I probably should never watch things like, um, the Titanic. Or like, what's that other one where the boat flipped upside down and they had to spend the whole The Poseidon
Christine: Adventure.
Emily: Cool, cool movie because Josh Lucas was in it. But, um, the Poseidon.
Rah: That movie that was based on what happened in real life. The swimmers that were scuba diving on the Barrier Reef. Yeah, nah, I'm real funny about um, yeah, like I actually,
Emily: Ocean and me, I find it wildly fascinating and my husband always is like, are you watching those deep sea, um, TikToks again because of that tone of the music that's on?
Um, and that's like the North Sea, how people keep getting lost and ships die and break and stuff in there. And I find it wildly fascinating, but it freaks the fuck out of me. You get me on a boat. Yeah, that, you get me on a boat and I'll be like smack in the middle. Be like, I'll just be good here and I will not move because they freak me out.
I don't know, cruise ships might be different, but then I'll probably convince myself that it's like the Titanic and we're going to die. Seriously, so funny.
Christine: Not a dream at all, but I'm going to segue off your thing about boats. My thing I really want to do, like a bucket list thing is the most weirdest. Um, but you know when you see Vision in a storm of Sydney and they always capture the Manly Ferry rolling over?
Seriously, I'm never close enough to Manly to get on that ferry. I want to be on that ferry. I want to be on that ferry. When the ocean starts.
Emily: It is
Christine: fucking petrifying. And you don't see the sky because you're just jet?
Emily: Yeah. No, thank you. Absolutely. That's a weird thing. Yeah, I know. Good thing we're a co owned business, so if you die on a ferry, I've still got it, it's fine.
Well, I've never met
Christine: Natalie to get it, so I don't think you have to worry about it. What? So Rah, tell us about a reoccurring nightmare dream, something or other for you. So
Rah: mine's legit a nightmare. So mine, which is going to be Funny to you guys because you know how I'm into planes, but mine is plane crashing.
Oh, so my recurring nightmare. Are you filming my recurring nightmare? So my recurring nightmare, see it's all content. Um, is I'm not on the plane, but I am seeing a plane. And I'm seeing it trying, I think, to either take off or try to avoid a mountain. Yep. And then it just can't and then it banks and then It's
Emily: always the mountains.
Oh, far out. Yeah.
Rah: And, um, so I looked into it years ago and found that it was control in my life. Um, which symbolism, yes. Symbolism. But what's interesting is I've only had one of those dreams since I started working for myself. Oh, that's interesting. Interesting. I mean,
Christine: clearly you didn't have Gerard Butler.
As your pilot, because he saved all those people. He did, or Tom Hanks as your pilot. Yeah, I know, but Gerard Butler's got his Scottish accent. So, you know, we have to talk about him. Yes. More. But
Rah: yeah, so that's mine. Okay. Yeah. All right. So I, because I don't remember many dreams. So when I do dream, it's like a big deal.
Yes. And then they become nightmare fuel, apparently. But yeah, how
Christine: about you, Chris? Um, I don't remember, well. Everyone dreams. We know that everybody dreams every night, um, but it's just what level in your subconscious and consciousness they are. Um, I don't remember dreams, but I did the other night. This is not a nightmare.
This was just an interesting thing. So in my dream Um, my son came out of, into the kitchen, I think, you know, and I asked him if I could use my car the next day. There's a metaphor. But Emily was in my house. So first legitimate. So he said yes, and I thought fantastic. And the next day when I woke up, when I first saw I said, what are you doing with the car?
Is it just sitting at school while you're in there? And he said, yes, I said, excellent. I'll be using my car today and I will just come and pick you up. And it worked out quite nicely. Emily wasn't there to, you know, pressure me into it, but it was just interesting that I dreamt about that. And I woke up.
It's because you were coming to my house. Well, I was coming to your house at date and I really didn't want to take the train to Kellyville or Rouse Hill and then walk. to your house. I didn't want to do that. Yeah, I'm in an awkward in the middle spot. Uh, yeah, absolutely. Um, but yeah, so no nightmares. No nightmares.
But, um, yeah, I could write a book, literally write a book on the amount of crazy shit that I dream
Emily: about. Well, there you go, people. Anyway, we digress. We have a fabulous, fabulous guest today.
Rah: Talk about somebody who's not a nightmare. I know. He's a total badass boss, babe. I've
Emily: decided to title this episode, The Ultimate Entrepreneur as well.
I thought that was a good little title for you as well. Welcome, Adria Nonalee.
Adrienne: Thank
Emily: you. Please, please, milady, tell us about yourself. Oh.
Adrienne: That is a tough title. Log Walks on the Beach. Hey, yeah. Pina Coladas. Sure, if you've got one, I'll take one. Excellent. Um, yeah, it's interesting that you use that title.
I've had this conversation with, like, multiple people having had my businesses for about eight years, and that word, entrepreneur, has never been used. Apart from always not being able to spell it, it's never resonated with me. And like, I had someone push back on me, actually someone who was recording me for a podcast and was like, why?
And I was like, I don't know. It's just not, I think about entrepreneurs and I think about like Richard Branson or people, um, Naomi Simpson, Janine Ellis, I want to say, who started Boost Juice, like those sorts of, especially Australian entrepreneurs. And then I looked up the definition and it's. Something along the lines of someone who starts a business, um, with the hope of making profit.
I'm like, you better fucking believe me. That is absolutely me. I would like to make some money out of it. Everyone we've
Emily: had on the show. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So it took a little bit of like getting used to adjusting the social normal norm expectations. A little reframe. Here
Adrienne: we are. Yeah.
Emily: Fantastic. Tell us about your current business.
Adrienne: So my current businesses, uh, there are two at the minute. Ooh. Um, so organized by Adrian, I've had for eight years, uh, in Oh, so that's an OG business? It's an og. Okay. She's the, well, there have been other businesses, but that's the original. So that is my, um, virtual assistant and event management business.
Um, and then five years ago, almost six years ago, I co-founded. The Newcastle VA community with a previous guest of yours, Jane, Jane,
Christine: we love,
Adrienne: we love Jane, love Jane,
Emily: slow key sitting in the room right now.
Adrienne: So her and I started the Newcastle VA business six years ago and formalize that into a formal business partnership three years ago. Um, so they are my two current businesses and other. Businesses have come and gone over the years, but that's the two that I'm rolling with at the minute. Hmm, where did you start?
Emily: What was your first one?
Adrienne: The organized by Adrian was the original business and like a lot of people sort of fell into it by accident. I never, um, intended to start the business. Um, but so that is still the original and still going. Um, and then I've had two other businesses during that time. A. Um, quarantine and COVID related greeting card business that I started during COVID because I was like, shit, what is this about to do to industry and everyone's industries?
Uh, and a friend of mine, her partner was turning 30 and there just wasn't the right card to be like, this is a bit crap. Yeah. I'm not going to be there for your 30th. And this is significant. start my own. Um, and so I did. And so I ran that for a few months to supplement my income. I mainly sold them to like people locally through my network, but I also did a couple of collaborations with some big engineering firms in Australia, some florists, um, that wanted to kind of.
Uh, modify the design, what the engineering firm was sending them all out to their staff like with like hamper packages and things like that. Um, and then, uh, someone basically stole the designs and the ideas. I gave, I just threw my hands up and just stopped. Was it Typo or
Rah: Teemu? No, it was
Adrienne: just a local person.
I hate that. Copyright infringement. I know. Which is disappointing, but I was just like, okay, whatever. I've had
Emily: that happen before. Before we became Junipero Gifting, I had a design that I'd used. for personalization on a makeup kit and they literally ripped my picture as well and used my image. Oh, I remember that.
Yeah. I had to message them and be like, get that off. Somebody
Christine: was very ragey and appropriately ragey.
Adrienne: Yeah. It's disappointing too, cause I was made it really public on my social media that I was doing collaborations and I absolutely would have done it with this person who had like a. Food hamper, like a specific, uh, hamper for a certain allergy.
And I was like, Oh, we could have absolutely done something together. I had made it really clear. I was, but I was just like, just other things to worry about. It's not, it's not my primary business. Yeah. Yeah. It's so annoying having to be the bigger person. Sometimes it really is disappointing. Oh yeah. Like I've done it once that time.
I wouldn't recommend it. Yeah. Yeah. I just could be
Emily: like, no, I'm going to bear it down. Yeah.
Adrienne: And then I also had, uh, my own podcast for. Two and a half, three years? Yeah.
Emily: Podcast
Adrienne: OG over here. What was
Christine: podcast? Yeah, so it
Adrienne: actually started as a coffee table book idea, and then I was like, I don't know how to make a book.
Yeah. But I think I can teach myself how to do a podcast idea. Um, so I, I'm a big podcast listener. I don't own a television. I have not owned a TV for over a decade. I just consume everything through podcasts. Yes. Wow. I'm impressed. Yeah. Yeah. I have recently bought a projector and I. Yeah, it's kind of what we need though.
You can stream stuff straight
Rah: from your phone or your computer. Yeah, totally. Oh, and get a TV tuner attached. I used to have one when we lived in the, um, near Newtown. Yeah, it's super handy. But
Adrienne: yeah, so podcast is my main go to for consuming content. But what I was finding is a lot of the podcasts I would go and I'd refresh each week, All had the same guest.
So it was obviously someone who had a new album, a tour, a book, amazing, and really incredible stories. But I was like, I've sort of heard these stories. Like where are all the other stories of the women that haven't got that? platform. Yeah. Um, so the idea was a coffee table book and then I turned it into a podcast.
It was called the bold platform. It's still available on all the streaming services about 45 episodes and it's women and girls from around Australia who have started their own charities, not for profits or social enterprises. Amazing. Yeah. And I've met honestly some of the most incredible women. Um, but because they were all charities during COVID, they were all Everyone was just doing what they needed to and not any of the extra stuff.
And so it sort of just slowly, naturally fizzled, um, put it on pause. I've been asked a few times whether I would bring it back, especially from past guests. Um, because. It was very beneficial for them in terms of building their profile, but it's also just one of those things that you can't do.
Emily: Yeah, there's already so much going on today.
Adrienne: I've got multiple businesses, I'm on multiple boards and things like that. I just, yeah, can't do it all. You've got a lot of boards going on at the moment too, don't you? I do, yeah. I'm the president of a local professional women's networking committee here in Newcastle. I'm also on the board of, um, Awesome Newcastle, which is a global foundation.
So I'm on the board of the chapter, um, here in Newcastle. Um, I think that's it. I love it. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Yeah.
Emily: Yeah. Definitely more boards than we're on.
Rah: I love it. That's so good. The only board I'm on
Christine: is
Rah: a cheese board. I'm a few hours away from her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily: Yeah. Weekly meeting.
Rah: Yeah.
Emily: Well, Mark, what kind of like drew you to, you obviously had some event back, your event background before, but what made you kind of go, I want to do some of my own? Like I want to start organized by Asian
Adrienne: so when I first started the business. I started doing the cash jobs for some friends that I had worked with before to actually fuel a total other business idea, which was like a, uh, directory, kind of like an urban list, that sort of style.
thing for the region that I grew up in. I moved away from there about 12 years ago. It's about an hour away. Um, but what I found was when I was going back to see friends and family, I was always wanting to go and try a new restaurant and new bar and cafe. And I had no idea where to find it and neither did my friends who lived there.
Yeah. And there's a really great version of that in our region in Newcastle, a very, very well established. Business, one that I look up to quite a lot and I thought the Central Coast really needs that and that was the original idea. So when for the first, uh, probably five, six years of the business, I traded under the business name Coastal Social.
So Central Coast is the region I was from. God, that's such a
Rah: great
Adrienne: name. All my branding and everything was that and I just did all this like cash kind of admin stuff on the side to start funding that business. That was eight years ago.
Emily: It's funny how things organically change.
Adrienne: And I don't regret it. I never regret it.
The business that does what I was thinking expanded into the central coast and they look after it now and they do a beautiful job so there's not that gap anymore. And I just loved what I was doing through Organised by Adrian. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's really cool. So it wasn't, it wasn't an on purpose. It's not.
It's a natural change. Yeah. Like not a story of I want to get out of corporate. It's not working for me anymore. Any of those sorts of things. It was. Yeah. It was actually a byproduct of another business idea. And
Christine: that I think is fantastic really. You know, that it is. It's just a natural byproduct of what you were doing at the time.
There's no regret. There's no angst that you're taking in to set up a business and then it's just all full steam ahead. And built it. Yeah. Oh yeah. I love that. It's so cool. It's funny how things do
Emily: twist and change as you go. Like everything changes quite organically. Yeah. Anyway. Like everyone's business has changed in some way, shape or form.
Yeah. Things just, you play to your strengths and then you get ideas and you keep going. Yeah. Yeah, different
Adrienne: opportunities present themselves, whether they're the right time or the wrong time. But I think if you're just curious and have that sort of mindset, I guess it is sort of an entrepreneurial mindset to go, okay, well, this has landed on my desk.
Let's run it up the flagpole, see if it's worth exploring. Maybe it is, maybe it
Emily: isn't. Exactly right. And I think, like, Chris and I have been talking about recently, like, we've hit 18 months as Juniper Road. And they do say it takes 18 months to two years to really kind of get your shit sorted when you're running a business.
And we've finally been like, We're here. We've done it. So to be like eight years down the track, that'll be such an exciting milestone to get towards. I know that will be huge. You guys
Adrienne: will absolutely get there. I can't believe that's eight, ten months already. I know. I know.
Emily: Yet it feels like longer, yet it doesn't at the same time.
Yeah. So much has happened in that time. I know. So much has happened this week. I know. It's been very full on and growing. Yeah. Yeah.
Christine: Absolutely. God, let alone this year. This year has been nuts. Yep. What's the most exciting type of event that you have organised for someone? Obviously I'm not asking for who, I'm just, you know, I've been doing some very cool stuff lately.
What's the coolest, most awesomest type of thing that you've put on?
Adrienne: Yeah, it really varies because sometimes like we did an event recently for one of the boards I'm on. It was small, it was intimate, but a really big event. Yeah. All about nutrition for women and like a really, really eye opening conversations.
And like, you could see. That like that impact that it was having and it was probably half the numbers we've gotten at other events Yeah, but it was just high impact, right? Yeah, I felt comfortable to share and it really was a smaller group Yes, ask questions. They could be vulnerable which you don't always get that bigger sort of style obviously the conference that Jane and I put on the Newcastle VA conference that we put on every year is something that I, and I think Jane as well, is super, super proud of.
She's nodding. She's nodding. We agree. Um, yeah. And
Emily: you should be proud of it. It's fucking amazing. As someone who's been there twice, the last two years. The generalized reaction from people when you said you're taking a year off next year, it was like fascinating. Everyone was just like, Oh no, what are we going to do?
And then even just talking to others being like, yeah, they're not doing it next year. They're like, Oh, what?
Christine: It's like, yeah, right. That's interesting. I think, um, you know, cause Obviously I couldn't come this year because of that damn spicy flu, um, but when I went to my first NUVAC, um, conference, it was just, I was impressed and I'm not here sucking up your bum kind of thing or anything like that, but what I really loved about it, but it was.
I just loved, I mean it's organised, but I just, I just loved the streamline, the feeling of it. I really loved that it was kept on point and, and kept on time and it just felt every sort of like little session was short and sharp and kept my attention and you know I've been to a few conferences in this part of my life and some of them just like, Oh sorry, it's nearly an hour and a half and we've still got I'm still stuck on the same speaker.
I'm tired or something and I've lost my pizazz. And can I also say too,
Emily: like, we went to one, the first time we came to Newcastle VAs, we had gone to another, um, big event, couple, multi day event earlier that year. And the biggest difference for us was like, How beautifully focused on your people and your sponsors you were.
And it wasn't a big woos us, we're fabulous. We're Newcastle VA. It was, even though that happened organically and naturally and beautifully, but it was such a beautiful event about the people. And that was like a big thing. I think I remember us both walking away being like, I actually love that. Like it was really well, you gave your sponsors beautiful opportunity to speak and present.
And you did it again this year. It's, it's wonderful. And it was like, it was just all about the attendee. And. I know that's not, like, it's common sense, right? It should really be all about the attendee. But it was just so beautifully done. Thank you, I think that's something,
Adrienne: like, it's really nice of you to say that because it's definitely something that we've worked hard on and it's a balance.
Yeah, of course. Like, we'll definitely get, I know we've got feedback forms where people are like, uh, like less about the sponsors, but at the end of the day, they're the ones that allow us to put on this event. Yeah. They each tailored their sessions. Yeah, the ticket sales and the sponsorship. That's how we funded it.
Exactly right.
Emily: And their session, what, what they presented on was business relevant. Like, it was. Well, there are
Adrienne: also people that Jane and I use every day in our businesses. Like, we have bought from those people and they have been big advocates for us and we know. They have customers in the room, they have clients in the room, but Jane and I will always say like, yes, we can put these events on, but it is the community is the community.
Like we just happened to be the two people that started the Facebook group six years ago. If we weren't like, it would still continue. It just so happened that we were the first two to start the Facebook group. Like it is very much about the community. It's just so happens we're at the front of the room.
I'm seeing it sometimes, but it's not.
Emily: You're so natural up there too, by the way. Oh,
Adrienne: thank you. Like, there's
Emily: some great photos from this last event. And I was like, there's a photo I think you'll like, get your hands out. And I was like, this is just Adrian in her natural habitat. Like, you just look so comfortable up there.
She's fine. Yeah, you just do it so well.
Adrienne: Yeah. But yeah, no, to answer your question, Chris, they are definitely events that I'm proud of. Um, the. networking community that I'm the current president of here in Newcastle. We do one of our big events is International Women's Day every year, um, where we bring in a keynote speaker.
Last year, we, um, we're very fortunate to have Jelena Dokic. Wow. That would have been, that would have been interesting. She would have been interesting to listen to. And especially she's been hitting so many marks lately with talking about her experiences. So that was, um, the first and the second of March, March, 2020.
three, four. Oh my God. It sold out in about 45 minutes and we got our speaker's agent to call her while she was at the Australian open and be like, Hey, would you do a second day? And she's like, yeah, sure. So we actually did two sold out events back to back with her. And, and on the Friday night after the first event, we had.
dinner with her. Oh yeah. And it was honestly like one of the most incredible experiences, listening to her story, um, just how much she shares, understanding from her, how she then, because she's so generous and she lets everyone share back with her. Yeah. How she then takes care of herself because she's taking on.
All these people's stories, let alone saying her own to, you know, 300 people within 48 hours. And that was the start of a, uh, row of events where she did 31 events in a row. Holy crap. God. It's so good by that. She's getting up there and fronting her story, like, and that was an incredible experience to spend some time with her as a female, as someone who has experienced, um, a violent situation in terms of a relationship, in terms of her speaking ability, uh, just as our female business community here in Newcastle, from so many different elements, it was a very significant event.
And my parents were at the second day, like for them to be there, like it was just, So many boxes that I'm super proud of. Obviously the ride in the DeLorean the other day. Your photos were amazing when you walked in. Yes, that was the Hunter Innovation Festival. That's the seventh festival I've done in my last one this year.
I've decided to step away from that. client and focus on some other things next year. But what I didn't have the heart to tell them, but I'll say it now in a recorded environment because that makes so much sense. Yeah. I have never seen Back to the Future. Neither have I, neither have I, neither have I.
Haven't you? And I didn't have the heart to tell these guys. He was taking me on hot laps around Newcastle Beach, like past where you guys are I don't have the heart to tell all these people. I'd do the same thing. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. But that was so it. That
Rah: was cool.
That was cool. I don't care whether you've seen the movie or not. Sorry, we can't move forward until we discuss that you need to go home and watch Back to the Future.
Emily: I feel like it's too old now to see it on TV. And she hasn't got a TV. There you go. Wow. Wow. Wow.
Christine: That was very
Emily: cool. No, no. I mean, I understand the premise of the movie and like the storyline and that people who's in it and stuff, but I've never really had a desire to watch it.
Christine: But it was Michael J. Fox. And it was just like, I think because we all obviously with his Parkinson's disease and, and, and, you know, not acting, it was just the height. I mean, he went on to. do some great stuff before his Parkinson's really took hold. I mean, again, I've learned about this
Emily: from The Simpsons.
Yeah,
Christine: well, you know, we have, we have ascertained that The Simpsons has been a wonderful education piece for you. This is like my sister and I, I'm like, how do you watch
Adrienne: this? She goes, well, I watched it on Gogglebox. Yeah. I kind of half watched it. That's how
Rah: I watch TV. It counts, right? Yeah, amazing.
Emily: I found other people's opinions while I was watching it.
I can't. Gogglebox is such a funny show.
Rah: So with Michael J. Fox. He was filming Back to the Future in the evenings after working all day filming Family Ties, which was like the 80s. Wow. Hard working. Yeah. He
Christine: was, yeah, very hard working. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah.
Rah: What was his first name on it? Something P. Keating.
What was his first name? Oh, cut that out. Oh, this is cool. It was going to be a question one day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah, sorry. the silent member of the episode. Well, look, I've got a question, though. Back to Silent partner. Yeah. That's the word, silent partner.
Emily: Back to what you said before about your client.
Mm hmm. How do you make that decision to walk away from a client?
Adrienne: Yeah. Good question. Um, a couple of reasons. I have to be very aware of not becoming stale. Oh! Yes. The event has been running for 20 something years, so every year we need to make it fresh. Yes. It's an innovation festival. Oh, hello! Yeah, that's right.
You need to innovate. It needs to be a little bit different, but it needs to be same enough so that people that are coming know what to expect. Um, I think sometimes clients, whether they be events, whoever they are, deserve a fresh set of eyes. Um, and not to become complacent or stale or a bit indifferent about just like, yeah, cool.
It's one of the most financially, uh, What's the word I'm looking for? One of my best clients from a financial perspective. So there's that factor. It's a big thing to walk away from. Sure, especially as someone who is a single, single income household. They are factors I need to consider. Um, but there's other, there's other projects, um, that I can take on.
There's always other events that. I can tap into, um, but yeah, I think you do need to know when to step away and for, and the client needing a fresh perspective, especially when it comes to events and really needing to keep it fresh. It's too easy to just get stuck in ways, isn't it? Yeah. And there's also other factors like that event falls.
So I do two major key client events every year for the last two years, they fall in the day. after each other. Oh, that's
Christine: hard. Wow. That's so exhausting. 16, 18
Adrienne: hour days on your feet, back to back. Yeah. Like my feet were literally bleeding. Yeah. Yeah. Last week. Um, it's not, that's not sustainable. Yeah. Like I joke.
about the start of this year. I was like, I managed three holidays and a separation in the start of this year. Like I had time. Everything was like manageable. The second half of the year we do, we've done the VA conference, the board I'm on, we do our big annual conference, those two big client events. And you also just don't have the same stamina you do.
And the same like, yes, I can take on this year at the end, nothing's a problem. You can't, you can't just keep doing it all. So yeah, having to make those decisions about. Yeah, when to step away, but also when they're, um, committee or board based, also understanding what the other boards members are doing, because it doesn't make sense for key people to all be leaving at the same time and finishing up.
So there's lots of different conversations and factors. But as soon as I just start thinking about it, I start talking to my clients, be like, Hey, this is where I'm thinking so that they know, and they can be making decisions about resourcing and other people's moves. Which is amazing, because I think there's a lot
Emily: of people out there, especially the people pleasers like us over here.
Uh huh. It's hard to have that transparent conversation with someone, because you worry what the backlash might be. Yeah. And having that, like, we've definitely got a client we need to walk away from, and that's been a four year process and journey. Yeah, I know.
Christine: And it's not over yet, but it's also like, you know, yeah, holding your tongue and, and treading lightly.
Um, but I find that it's becoming important that we make the move because, you know, this particular, what we do and this particular client, it just really. They just don't really align with the direction we're taking our business in. And as a business owner, I do have the power to do the stuff I want to do.
And why would I, you know, if I wanted to do work that I really didn't love, I'd go and get a job. Yeah. Um. But it's that fine line of the, the length of time that we've had this client and, um. It's
Emily: also a particular personality type. So we've
Adrienne: got to tread lightly
Christine: with this guy. Sure, but I, yeah, I'm always
Adrienne: of the, and I, you know, you see this in business, Facebook groups and things like that to be like, I'm starting this business.
Should I tell my employer I'm doing this? Should I tell my employer? And that, um, I'm always just like be as open as you can. Because I have. Like, VAs that work in my business, on a project or a retainer basis, if they were thinking about moving on, the more notice the better, because you can start to plan.
I would have been grossed out
Emily: on that. It's incredible notice. Look, I will caveat, it is hard. I've been working full time and been fully transparent about the fact that we have a bit, we had a business, and that was then used against me later. When I, the situation turned quite bitter and I was telling you about this last year was, I had that really bad work situation and that was thrown in my face a lot, which was not fair because I was just being transparent.
The damn company hired us to be VAs for them as well, but it kept getting thrown back in my face during that. So it's a really hard one. Like there's part of me that was like, maybe I shouldn't have said anything. Yeah. And every situation's different. It is tricky, but I, I look, I love the, the transparency approach.
That's how I prefer to operate my life. Yeah. Um, and the, the contract that I finished up earlier this year was the same thing. I straight up was like this, my boss at the time was like, Okay. I was like, great. We ticked this box. It's fine. And I never even bothered again. So it's really subject to who you have.
Yeah. And it's but it's hard when you're corporate working because they, there's a mindset sometimes in that, in that world that can be a bit, hmm. Either or. You know. And it's, it's funny. It's a stupid mindset in general. The amount of times, you know, my, I've had a conversation around my mother's mindset of, Oh, it's just a little side hustle.
I'm like, no, I want to do this permanently. Yeah. This is my end game. It's my jam. Let's get on board with this one. Okay. Exactly. It's not going to happen.
Rah: Seriously. But even, um, when in the last sort of, uh, probably nine months now, I ended a working relationship. And it was fine, like I had no issues, um, but it just wasn't the right fit and it didn't, you know, and I even said to them, um, because they're into art, so I thought, oh, I can come up with a way that they would understand it in terms of art.
So I said, imagine I've got an art gallery and I have all of these paintings by Monet. But then I bring in a Picasso and it sits smack bang in the middle and it doesn't make sense to me. It changes the whole cohesiveness of what I'm doing. And she was like, yeah, okay, get it. That's a clever way of thinking about it.
You've just got
Adrienne: to meet them where they're at, have the conversation. And like, my aim is always to leave the clients a little bit better than how I found them. And, it's like, it's a small business community. And
Emily: who you know is so important.
Adrienne: And, you don't really have Word gets out as well. Correct. And we've seen it a hundred times.
Ooh, it wasn't breathed by your reputation. Correct.
Emily: And
Adrienne: like, my whole business is built on word of mouth. It's like, you cannot afford. It's the strongest thing
Emily: ever. You can't burn those bridges. No! And if you're not going to be for everybody
Adrienne: and everyone's not going to be you, that's totally fine. There have been people I've
Rah: burnt bridges with and I have not given a flying fuck because I do not want anyone that they recommend to work with me.
True. Yeah, there's also that situation as well. There's also people who are just like, not good human beings. I don't trust their judgment. We
Emily: definitely not aligned. No. Yeah. What would you reckon your biggest moment of Fuck yeah, this is this is what I'm doing. Like this is this I mean my passion pace would be like that I mean, it's okay if there isn't one either but what do you like?
What is the biggest woohoo moment that you're just like fucking love my job.
Adrienne: I Love what I'm doing. This is
Emily: definitely right for me
Adrienne: There's a few some of them are financial related. Um, when I've had certain. It's a milestone piece. Like that's such a goal. Certain years that I've had in terms of the business and seeing it grow from a financial point of view, because it just gives me options.
And to your point, Chris, you know, I, at the start, I didn't have those options to turn away certain clients. Even the ones where I was like, my gut is totally off here. This, this person and I. We're not aligned, but I'm not in a position to say no, I need to make this thing work. Um, so there's definitely, yeah, I guess I just want to acknowledge that that's a position.
That I've worked hard to get to, to be able to say no to this client and to walk away from those. Um, I think the other ones are where people that I really admire have come to me and are like, we'll do whatever it takes. We want you to work for us. We want you to be our VA. I want you to be my assistant, that kind of thing.
Which is a great compliment. Where I'm like, looking behind me being like, who are they talking to? Me? Me, of course, but not me. What? Me? It cannot, it cannot be me. And they're like, no, no. It's you. And I'm like, Oh my God, like I look up to this person. Like they are like on, you know, they are one of those people.
I want to grow up. Totally. And just like, I think they're so impressive and they run these incredible businesses. And then to realise that like, they're kind of looking at you in the same way. I'm like, say what now? What we're equal? Yeah. That's weird. Yeah. They're definitely those sorts of moments where you're like, Oh, okay.
Rah: It's
Adrienne: so fucking cool when that happens.
Emily: I know,
Rah: it is, isn't it? You
Adrienne: had that
Rah: this year? Yeah, I have. And you guys are around often when I'm getting messages and I'm like, Oh my God! And then I screenshot it and then I'm gonna like print it and like all these months later, she's still like, Yes! I loved, this is amazing!
Yeah, and sometimes even when you look in my calendar probably, you'll see that I'm putting client name, Oh my God! And we're just holding onto that spot because I might get to like spend more time with them. I'm like, Gimme, gimme, I wanna hang out. She fangirls hard. Yeah, I fangirl super hard at my clients.
Adrienne: Yeah, but that's what I mean. Like, you don't want to
Emily: just be like, Oh yeah, cool. My last question for you is, uh, what is, if you've got, if someone's going to start something, anything, what are like some little pieces of advice you'd give them?
Adrienne: In terms of starting their own business or
Emily: walking away from a client or any of those.
What would, actually let me rephrase this, what would be something that you wish you knew when you started? How to charge properly. That's such a big thing in this industry. Yeah. When
Adrienne: I left my full time job, I pulled out my PDF payslip. I saw what the hourly rate was and told my first client that's what my hourly rate was.
And it took me years to get them to an actual consulting rate. Oh, I had no idea. My parents, but like my dad's a teacher. My mom is a staff secretary. I don't know anyone in my family that runs their own business. I've never, I tried university for six months and was not learning style. Wasn't for me. I had no idea about that kind of stuff.
And it's one of the things where I'm like, I wish I knew. That, and it's anyone that comes to us, especially in the VA space that I work is like, I would always recommend, and it's not a one size fits all. If you've ever seen me comment about this sort of stuff, and like Jane and I are always super on the same page about this, it's like, talk to your accountant, talk to your bookkeeper, your household and what they need is different to my household, which is different to Jane's, which is different to yours, Amber, Chris, everything's different.
It's like, but work out correctly how much it is going to cost you to run the business, what tax you need to pay, your superannuation, all of that. Obviously, yes, look at what the market you can actually charge as well, but that would be my biggest thing because it took me years and I, those conversations around money, I naturally try to avoid, my business coach would be nodding her head.
Some of them I just, I didn't put my rates up for years cause I, and then I was like getting resentful and all of that. So I'm like, I'm working for nothing and it's like, you're not doing anything about it. Yeah. And you get
Rah: so scared because they're going to walk away.
Adrienne: Yeah. But also what's the worst thing that can happen?
Exactly.
Emily: They walk
Adrienne: away.
Emily: One of our last clients, um, I'm sorry, guests, David, who anyone heard him speak at a conference and his episode will have aired before this, um, actually said exactly that. What's your ed number that you want to make? Then work backwards. Yeah. And how much so, you know, if you want five grand or something, he's going to kick me if I get this wrong properly, and I will probably will.
But if you want like, you know, five grand profit, whatever, you actually need to make like 12.
Rah: Yeah.
Emily: Yeah. In order to get to that point. You
Rah: know, it took me a year to work that out.
Emily: Yeah.
Rah: I knew it, but I didn't think it properly. Yeah. But also
Adrienne: there's a lot of stuff out there and I. We've all seen it, where it's like, I can teach you how to make your business like, this, and I'm like, you're not taking away that, it's false advertising, and it really gets my goat, because yes, I can have, I can have a 10k month with my eyes closed.
You better believe I'm not sitting with 10K in my bank. I may have sent out 10, 000 worth of invoices. That's fine. That's right. But how many invoices have you
Christine: paid to make that? How much do I actually
Adrienne: walk away with? It's not 10, 000. That's
Christine: not how this works. And that's one of the, you know, one of the little things that was a motivator for this podcast, right?
Is those Myth busting. We wanted a myth bust. Yeah. Those people would say, you know, join my membership and I'll tell you how to make six figures in three months. Like that really, really legitly enrages Chris. Yeah, it does. It gets so ragey. If you enjoy it, you're obviously doing it. You have great products and
Adrienne: services.
But that's not the reality. Like you're not, you, you might be selling that much in products and services. You are not taking that away.
Christine: No, I did the similar thing to you, um, Adriene, as I looked at my hourly rate and I then, of course, I had then had a, what I, at the time, called my friends and family rate because that's what I did.
So I took off a percentage of this and a what not, ended up doing a 20 percent discount because you were supporting me in my business startup. And of course, four years later, I was struggling, struggling to get a couple of clients up to where I, you know, the expectation of where they should be, where they should be.
And as we know, in this game, insurances alone are a costly activity and even trying to come in and say, well, my insurance has gone up, the CPI has gone up and I couldn't, you know, couldn't move. Couldn't move them, couldn't move them at all. Um, we parted in very good terms this year, because it was finally identified that our business model did not align with theirs.
But it's a long, and four years, four years. It's a long way to shake it off. It's great advice. Yeah, so I agree, that's a really, really important thing. Yeah, because I was scared of that too,
Rah: and what I did was with the harassment of a business coach and mindset coach was I put the rates up with the mates rates.
Yep. Um, but I was very clear with going it's this and then this and then. So they are aware of what they're getting? Yeah. Yeah. And showing so this is how much it's been costing. Now the new price is actually going to be this. Yeah. For the very specific services that I was giving. And. Within 20 minutes they replied and said, yeah, no problem.
Adrienne: Yeah, most of them were right back and they're just like, yeah, amazing. I literally couldn't do this without you. for everything. People want to pay you. Tell me what I need to sign. Yeah. Most people I don't think are trying. Now, there are these people, but they're not trying to get away with doing like things and shouting you of money.
Obviously, we all want good value and we don't want to be spending money on things that we don't need to. But. Yeah, that would be my top tip is like get some good advice at the start and set that out because it's easy to have the conversation up front just like this is my rate and here's what it's based on and here's all the things that it includes then trying to get that up down the track.
It's too
Emily: hard, it's really hard. Well, I think that's time for Chris's, uh, question of the hour. Magic question.
Adrienne: I'm nervous. Don't
Christine: be nervous.
Adrienne: Can we have a cocktail after this? Oh, absolutely. Pre recorded.
Christine: Never enough alcohol involved in these podcast recordings. We record half of them in a pub. What's going on?
Excuse me, we're in a library. I know, we're in a library. That's right. Shit. Sorry, it's classier in,
Rah: uh, Newcastle than it is Western Sydney. That's right. Than our pub. Yes. So, Adrienne. Yes?
Christine: It's a Sunday. Mm. You've got absolutely nowhere to be. No work, no responsibility, no cat to feed. Sounds familiar. Um, what is your ideal day?
Chris, I thought you'd never
Adrienne: ask. Um, I can tell you because Yes. Not to gloat, but this is pretty much my normal Sunday because I am non gloat and childless by choice. I live on my own in Newcastle CBD on the harbour. So my Sunday No, thank you. Um Back off, back off, back off. We're back off. Emily, stop interrupting.
It's like absolutely no alarm. Yep. That's how it starts. No alarm. Yep. Yep. Very dark in the bedroom. Love it. Sleep. Wake up when my body wakes up. Shower. Go out and get proper coffee. My favorite barista that I live above is not open on Sundays, so I go to the alternate. Normally then there's some sort of walk with a friend.
Then there's some groceries, a little bit of organizing, just a little bit of pottering. Yep. The sauna is an absolute non negotiable, the infrared sauna every Sunday. So in winter and the cooler months we go on a Sunday afternoon. Okay. In the, um, in the, yeah, in the cooler months. In the warmer months we go in the morning.
As early as we can, normally 7, 7. 15. Then we go straight to the ocean baths. Then we go for brunch. Then we go and buy some like plants or homewares. This is like one of my best friends. This is what you have like no kids. Oh my
Rah: god. Yeah, I'm jealous. I might start adding sauna to my child forever. It's amazing.
I think you should. It's amazing. Then I
Adrienne: probably would do like an everything shower. Oh yes. Get into bed. What's an everything shower? Oh, an everything shower. Literally, hang out in Los Angeles. Oh, right, like, form full body maybe? Yes. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I did that this morning. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was my prepare for today. We're doing our face. I was on time as well, which is a big thing for me. There's a candle
Emily: on. There's a good playlist, probably, on lackets. I mean, I had my daughter in for half of it, so we do different, different lives. You do what you do. You do what you want.
You gotta take what you can. I am
Adrienne: so aspiring. Yeah. And then, like, early into bed, good dinner, prepped food for the week. Feeling organized. Sunday is really important to organize. Yeah.
Christine: That sounds amazing. I'm a bit jealous. Yeah. Oh, I'm incredibly jealous. I'm definitely going to be thinking about you on Sunday.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm sweaty. That sounds pretty good. Yeah. That's usually
Rah: me, but I spend most of the day sitting in front of the TV, catching RuPaul's Drag Race. Is
Adrienne: that cool? Well, look, now I have the projector. I feel like we might need to, like, link your projector in
Emily: our show notes. Amazon, 112. Oh, that's
Adrienne: great.
Seriously? Best 112. Our projector costs like a thousand. No! It's no bigger than these microphones. This is obviously not a visual pod pro program, but it's like, we are trying to film you. They're small, it sits on the bedside. Smaller than two fists together. Well that's the one. It's like a little keep cup.
Like a coffee keep cup. It sits on the bedside. On a pack of, you know, self help books I'll never read. Fair, fair. Oh, see,
Rah: I had the Big Bertha hanging off the ceiling. Oh! You can get teeny ones
Adrienne: now.
Rah: Yeah,
Adrienne: right. It's for the school assembly hall. Oh, crap. I think I'm going to be ordering one. 112. It's got a remote.
Yeah, it comes built in with like YouTube, Netflix, you can customise every tiny corner of it. So,
Christine: it's just, it's perfect. So, in our pyjama party tonight, while we've got our face masks on, we're going to order one. I thought you were going
Adrienne: to say you come to my apartment, it's just down the road from where you live.
I know, I know, right.
Christine: We'll just
Emily: knock up on your door.
Adrienne: Yeah,
Christine: it's only a queen bed, we can make it work. Excellent, thanks. Sleep
Emily: on the floor.
Christine: That's fine. All right, well, um, okay, besides the fact that that was just a dreamy Sunday. That's amazing. Um, so much. Thanks for coming. Thanks for being here. How do we find you?
Adrienne: How do we find you? So we can put you in the show notes. Um, so organizedbyadrian. com. au is the website and the social media. Newcastlevirtualassistance. com and the social media. That's it. That's me. Yeah. And your
Rah: homework is to go and maybe think about watching Back to the Future.
Adrienne: Yeah. Got it. And you can downsize the projector.
Yeah. Jobs, jobs, done. Mic drop. Win, win.
Brilliant.
