Running Multiple Businesses Through Grief: A Story from The Other Side
Content warning: Death of husband, grief.
Meet Cassandra Barrie - business therapist, empire builder, and the most refreshingly honest guest we've had yet.
When life threw Cass the unthinkable - losing her husband while 30 weeks pregnant and managing four businesses through grief - she didn't just survive, she transformed her experience into a revolutionary approach to business therapy.
In today's episode, Cass shares the raw truth about building multiple successful businesses while dealing with personal crisis. From a motorcycle accident and painkiller addiction to launching a business empire, she proves that success doesn't require perfection - it requires authenticity.
We dive deep into why asking for help isn't weakness, how to run a business through trauma, and why being yourself matters more than following someone else's blueprint. This conversation will change how you think about business therapy.
This episode is packed with wisdom, laughs, and zero bullshit advice from someone who's turned life's biggest challenges into her biggest strengths.
Number of fucks given in this episode: 36
Mentioned in this episode:
Robbie Willam's acceptance speech for AACTA Award for Best Film (Better Man)
Transcript
Emily: Welcome to Fuck Around and Find Out, a podcast for finding your way through only your own business. I'm Emily. I'm Rah. I'm Chris. We're
Rah: nailing it. Let's, I think we should keep that in. I think we need to edit that out. Yep. Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. Again, from the moment we tried to Even just jump into this virtual studio.
So we are in the virtual studio today,
Emily: and we have a absolutely fabulous guest star who we have been very excited about speaking to since she reached out to us. I do believe she was the first listener who made us cry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When we got the voice notes. We had to like. Listen to your voice note like a few times because we were like, this is so exciting.
Yeah, I know, I know. You need to switch to
Rah: the Instagram account and listen to it.
Emily: I know, I know. It was fantastic. Yeah, no, it was so good. It was so good. Welcome, Kaz Barrie. Welcome, welcome, welcome from sunny Queensland, where it hopefully is not storming for you today. No,
Cassandra: actually, it's not. But you know what, like, honestly, like, I've been called worse things.
And I've still responded professionally, you know what I mean? So, if you could have called me anything, that would have been totally fine. I
Rah: have a client whose first name is Annabelle, and she got a letter that was addressed to anal ball.
Cassandra: What isn't a name, you know what I mean?
Rah: Yeah,
Cassandra: they can call me
Rah: anything except like for dinner.
Cassandra: Yeah, this is exactly right, exactly right. So, I just, I'll just respond. I'm just like, yeah, that was close enough, that'll do.
Emily: Yep. Welcome, welcome. I think, um, we're very excited to have you, and, um, Chris, or Rah, will we get an intro cast, or shall we let her intro
Christine: herself?
I'm happy to intro Cass, and then, and then we'll let Cass get a little bit of time on the podcast herself to, to talk, to talk about yourself. Can we say this? That's right. It's mostly
Emily: so you can, um, like, see whether we've actually done our homework.
Rah: No pressure. You can test us. Oh my God. Please correct
Christine: anything you think is, you know. That's right. That's right. And we'll just say, Hey Rah, just smuck that point and remove that. It was wrong. Or something like that. I'm just going to make a note. You're about to meet someone who's going to completely shape up, shake up how you think about business therapy.
And trust me, you didn't even know you needed a business therapist until now. Today's guest is Cassandra Barrie and she's not your typical business coach. She's the founder of the Messy Framework. Yep. You heard that right. Because she knows that perfection is bullshit. And the real mag magic happens in the mess with nearly two decades of experience across everything from hair and beauty to fashion, retail and commerce.
So that's e commerce. Cassandra's seen it all and built it all. Seriously, people, she's done some eyebrow work this morning and a little bit of a hair job on her mother in law. Goodness me. Thank God she said hair job. That's not where I thought it was going. Oh, yeah. Well, that's right. Yes. Yeah.
Emily: We like someone who's multi talented.
Well, I have a
Cassandra: skin diagnosis, depression and diabetes, so I'm like, if the third D coming along, can it be me? Please be dick.
Emily: I mean.
Christine: Oh my
Emily: god. That would make the rest of it a bit easier. It would.
Christine: So without further ado. You could just B Y O. B Y O
Rah: U D. You'll be fine. B Y O U D.
Christine: Yeah. Oh my god, you're totally ruining my whole intro, I worked a lot of time on this.
So I'm going to just cut to the end of my 17 page intro and just say strap yourself in peeps because, yes, please welcome the one and only Cassandra Barrie to the Fuck Around Podcast. Hello, hello, oh
Cassandra: my gosh, this is going to be glorious chaos. Absolutely.
Rah: It's so good to have you here.
Cassandra: Thank you so much.
Yes. And it was, you know, for those that are listening, when I came across the fuck around and find out, um, I think it was Facebook page originally. And then I stopped to Instagram and I don't even know what this is. But I am messaging these women and saying, I'm fucking it, like, what do you do, how can I be a part of it?
I'm like, this is my jam, like, and here we are now.
Emily: It was the best message ever. Yeah.
Christine: It was, we were listening to it over and over and sharing it amongst our little secret chat. It was just, I think it also for us, it kind of like said, Oh, okay, we're kind of like on the right path, or the beginning of the right
Emily: path?
It exactly was that, and it's like, you know, we know that our own friends and family listen to support and stuff, but it was that realisation that we're not just getting together to talk shit, and there are other people that don't know us at all who are listening to this, and it's simultaneously scary but exciting, that it does resonate with people, and that was like, you were definitely the first person to bring that home for us.
As well, which is really cool. I
Cassandra: fucking love that, you know, and that's the thing, like, we all, you know, there is nothing wrong with needing that bit of validation and that little bit of an ego stroke every now and again, you know, like, we need that, um, especially when we're in business for ourselves, like.
You need that, just that little bit of outside validation, like, and it's okay to have to want that.
Christine: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, hey, Cass, tell us about you. Yeah, so,
Cassandra: um, yeah, I am, I am a multifaceted entrepreneur. Um, so I do have a lot of experience from a lot of different industries over the years. Um, but now my I can't even say my sole focus because I'm about to launch another business, so.
I
Christine: love
Cassandra: that. I love that. I think I'm back to averaging about 3 to 4 at the moment, 3 to 4 businesses.
Emily: Um, this is why I knew I loved you because at one given, I think this is the lowest number of businesses that I've had and Chris has had, but at one given time I had 4 as well. Um, and now we're down to 3.
I swapped, I dropped one and picked up another. So we're down to three. Um, just to keep it real, you know.
Cassandra: Oh, I work better. Like I actually did over, it was probably like a year and a bit ago. I tried to focus on one thing and I got nothing done. Absolutely nothing. Like I thrive in chaos. I thrive in that space.
And so when I sort of accepted that, like it just made sense and that's just how I work. So now I'm having multiple businesses or multiple sort of branches is a much better way for me, um, to function. And that's okay. It's also coming to that space of like, I'm not like everyone else. I don't need to be like everyone else.
I don't need to do things like everybody else. This is what works for me. For some people from the outside, they might be like, holy fucking shit, like, that's crazy, you're taking on too much, you're gonna burn out. Whereas I'm like, no, give me more! And It just, it just works. And you've got to find what works for you.
And Absolutely. Just do it. Like, just like what everybody else says. Because everyone's going to have an opinion no matter what you fucking do.
Christine: Oh god, exactly right. Exactly
Cassandra: right. Um, so I guess a little bit on, on the whole business therapist thing. That's always why everyone's like, what the fuck is a business therapist?
And so For me, um, I have one of my businesses called the Woo Woo Shed. It's a holistic wellness studio. And so in that space, I was working one on one with just sort of, with women, helping them work through absolutely everything. So I'm a holistic counsellor, I've got several modalities under my belt in the holistic realm, um, psychic medium, um, energy healer, breathwork facilitator, like lots of that.
Yeah. Also that good ju stuff there.
Emily: Chris and I, we will be coming to Ipswich. Yeah, yeah, yeah. , now that you've said that need some, uh, psychic intervention for us both in our lives. . Yeah. We
Cassandra: all sometimes need that bit of an assick from beyond, that's for sure. Um, and so with that, prior to that, I, I had hair salons.
Um, then I actually was in a motorcycle accident and a car. Um, I was in a hit and run motorcycle accident, so I ended up with screws in my shoulder. So screws in your shoulder plus hairdressing,
Christine: not really
Cassandra: a bright match. And so from that time, I actually then merged from owning a hair salon and I started building a salon business coaching business.
Um, and that did really well. I niched down to salon owners, um, and then I decided to leave the industry. It was just too hard not being able to really do what I'd done for over half my life. Um, so I left the industry, sold my salons, uh, all of that kind of stuff and went into the space of honestly pretty much doing what I was doing as a hairdresser in the form of healing, helping people with their confidence.
And all of those kinds of things. But this time I just got to sit, sit down, you know, I didn't have to be standing on my feet for 12 hours doing hair and counseling. I got to sit down and counsel. That sort of progressed into that. And then again, I was just like, no, this still just doesn't feel right. And I was really called back to come back to the business industry.
And so that's where I sort of tapped back into that. Business coaching model, but by now I had then have all of these other professional qualification and I was like, I'm not a coach, I'm not a mentor. I'm more than that. Like I'm way more. And then we were sitting and I was having lunch with a fellow. Um, business owner and friend, she's sitting there with her maccas, shoving fries in her mouth, and she's like, why don't you just call yourself a business therapist?
And I'm like halfway through, like a mouthful of food, and I'm just like, fuck
Christine: yeah!
Cassandra: I love it. It was like, that's so cool! Like, and it makes sense. Yep. Because I am a therapist, but I help you in your business. And we all know, your business doesn't grow Until you grow.
Christine: And so
Cassandra: that's kind of where I've melded all that together.
So my professional skill sets from lived experiences to, you know, learned qualifications and things like that have been melded together into the space of, yeah, business therapy.
Emily: I love that. And I love that moment of like, We had a bit of the same moment when we decided on our name as the Women in Business Collectives.
Ra actually said it because she was googling business names. And as soon as she said it, Chris and I were in the car and all three of us were like, oh, fuck yeah, that's the one. That's it. Oh yeah. Goosebump moment. Totally. Yeah. It's nice when you land on that and you're like, it just fits.
Cassandra: It's perfect. I think the thing is as well, like, you know, we don't want labels, like we want that freedom and that, and, and that flexibility.
But like the reality is, is when you are in business, um, there are some situations where you do need a label, you do need the title, you do need the structure. Like, cause if I'm in an elevator, you know, the old elevator pitch, you've got to be able to. To concisely say what it is you do, or explain what do.
And that's why, like, I really struggled with the whole, What do you do? Oh, I'm a business coach.
Christine: Yeah, yeah. Well, what's that? I was like, yeah! You know, like,
Cassandra: I coached my son's soccer team. That's, you know, that's what I did there. I was a coach for soccer, like, so being a business coach just didn't feel right.
Um,
Christine: and there's also like, and I'm not putting down the, the role in, um, business at all, but life coach, business coach, there is a lot of them out there. So it's, I feel from me. My perspective, saying business therapist, just leans into so much more because God, I was thinking that too. Yeah, like it's like, oh wow, I need that.
But no, I don't need a coach. But therapy, yeah, I need
Emily: something. Exactly right. And I, I have I've got issues with the word coach and how it quickly it's thrown around and, and used quite heavily. And like exactly what Chris said, I think I'd rather, I'd lean more into, Ooh, a therapist. You can fix my problems.
They might not always be business, but they're all handy. Like I think I'd laid more into that. Like it would attract me more as a person as well. I like it. It's much better. I love it. It feels so right. It feels so right. Tell us about your journey to get there. You've been through a fair bit. Yeah,
Cassandra: yeah. So like I said, it's been a combination of, uh, lived experiences and then, you know, professional qualifications.
And so, um, I guess the journey into really uncovering life, uncovering myself, all of that, uh, really kicked off, um, in 2015. So, um, I got married in February of 2015, um, I had four businesses at the time, um, planned a wedding in like 16 weeks. Um, because the second he put a ring on it, I was like, fuck yeah, I'm locking that down, like.
I'm not
Christine: fucking around.
Cassandra: And the only reason it wasn't like any sooner was literally because it was like Christmas and New Year. So I was like, I'm, and I'm, and I'm not getting married in peak summer in Queensland.
Christine: Yeah, no, no, no. like a week later,
Cassandra: you know, if I have my way. So, we got married, um, Feb of 2015, uh, then fell pregnant just after we got home from our honeymoon.
And then Yeah, just over nine months, or just under nine months later, I was 30 weeks pregnant with our son, Franklin, and my husband, Glenn, um, he passed away in his sleep,
Emily: so. Oh, Jesus. Yeah,
Cassandra: he was 26. In his sleep? Yep. 26
Emily: in his sleep?
Cassandra: Yeah. Fucking hell. Yeah, so, and he was actually, um, he was actually over in Thailand, so he was over there with his band, so he was a lead guitarist.
Um, and so he was in Thailand at like a recording studio compound, um, and they'd been there for a couple of weeks. So it had been like two weeks since I'd seen him last, um, and that morning I'd just been diagnosed with gestational diabetes. As well. So I was like, I echo James and like,
Christine: all the fear
Cassandra: mongering from your doctor and all that.
And all I wanted to do was call him and I've been trying to call him and there's like time differences. Plus they recorded to like 2, 3 AM. So it wasn't unusual for him to sort of not get back to me, but he knew I had the doctor's appointment. So I was like. Motherfucker, why are you not answering my calls?
Like, you should have been checking in on me. And then, yeah, it wasn't until that night that I got a call from one of his bandmates. And he's just like, hey Cas, Glenn's dead. I'm like, why did you I'm like, dude, you're fucking around.
Emily: Please tell me he didn't
Cassandra: deliver it like that. Yeah, that was pretty much all he said.
Well, What else, how else is he going to say it? What else is he going to do? Oh, you, um, yeah, I thought it would be a nice word. No, and there was like, five of them over there? Yeah, so like, out of all of them, like, how fucked would that be? You know what I mean? Like, and they all know me, they were all at my wedding.
Like, they're, they, they're my friends too, like, the BAM guys. Like, how shitty would it be to want to pull the straw, to have to be the one? Yeah. Yeah. The poor fucker. Yeah.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah. And he probably, you know, probably knew it wasn't the kindest way to say it, but yes, it's not something that's easily practiced and rehearsed till you think it's better, right?
you don't ever think you're going to have to have that conversation. You, oh my God, no, you would never want to. Wow. 30 weeks pregnant, husband abroad, dead in his sleep and four businesses still running. Yeah. Wow. Don't know how he's still standing now, man.
Cassandra: Yeah.
Christine: Yeah.
Emily: That's off. That's a lot to
Cassandra: survive. Yeah.
So I think for me, um, like the universe really was delivering it. There was a lot of things delivered at the time, so I had a salon, like a really big salon space. It was like a 200 square meter space. Um, the lease was up that month, so that was easy enough to sort of just go, okay, yep, cool. Thank you. Bye.
Obviously that had to be, and I'd already sort of started to transition that out a little bit because I was pregnant. So I was kind of already on that journey there. So again, like, thank you. Um, our house lease was up. Um, so there was a lot of things that were sort of just in such divine timing with that process.
Um, so that was a big fucking help because a lot of the real life shit that was happening as well as in business was just already kind of flexible. So, um, grateful as fuck for that.
Emily: Yeah, that's definitely takes the pressure off a little bit.
Christine: Yeah, absolutely. Cause it's a lot of, it's um, I mean, it's, it's a lot of grief, right?
To have to manage and, and plus, you know, you're pregnant and that's a fucking journey in itself. And And when you've got to keep business going, you know, you still got rent to pay, you've got all of that sort of stuff going on. I mean, I've, I've only had to manage back injury and surgery and keep, you know, keep the client work humming along.
And I know what that was like, but I mean, my God, just to have to keep moving forward. But you've
Emily: also got a couple of it with the admin that comes to you with, with death. Like people don't realize how much. Work and back end administration of all your accounts and all of that stuff that there is
Rah: to do, like it kind of is a bit shocking.
Especially when you're that soon into being married where you'd already gone through a whole bunch of that stuff.
Cassandra: Yeah, yeah. And it's just like, um, I think for me as well, like being in the industry that I was in, a lot of the time, like I was a sounding board for people. So people would come in to me as a hairdresser, they would come to me with their grief.
They would come to me with their issues. And so it was really in the space, I was like, I don't give a fuck about your grey hair, and I really don't care if your boyfriend hasn't texted you back. Like,
Rah: whereas before, Yeah, it really changes your focus. They were
Cassandra: the conversations that we all had, and it was the fun and the gossip and the helping people with their relationships, and essentially fucking counselling people through their lives.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was just like, no. And then on the flip side as well, like, I had, so I had the salon, Um, I had an events business, so that was pretty good because the events were pretty much done for the year. Um, I had a network marketing business and I'm so grateful for that because that was one of those things.
Yeah, pulling back meant no income, but the support that I had worldwide from that was phenomenal. Yeah. Because I just had met so many people. A week before Glenn left for Thailand, I'd just come back from Vegas. For a work trip for that business. So, that was beautiful having that business and that support.
Um, and then we had a clothing store, which I was in a partnership with my mum. And that was okay, but like, I started to make little mistakes through that with ordering. I was trying to make it function. Because I wanted it to function, because I wanted to focus on something else. And then I just kept making too many mistakes.
Um, so that's where, for me, the biggest thing was stopping being so fucking stubborn. and admitting that I was making mistakes and asking for help.
Emily: It's hard to ask for help when you're not used to doing that.
Cassandra: Yeah, I was so fiercely independent for so long.
Emily: It's a, it's a hard thing. It's a really hard thing.
I think everyone's been in the boat of asking for help almost feels like admitting defeat. And we don't want to admit defeat, even though asking for help isn't. Admitting defeat by any way, shape, or form. It's a weird mindset shift to change.
Rah: Yep. Yeah.
Cassandra: And for me it was control as well. Like I just had so much control stripped away from me.
I just had so much of like my future vision, um, and everything stripped away in a literal fucking heartbeat. I didn't want to have to relinquish any more control, or let go of, or lose anything more.
Emily: And when you're going through grief and all that really big stuff, that's the stuff you cling to because it gives you some semblance of normality and, and that control.
It's the only thing you can control when everything is spiraling and it's, it's even harder to have that. Taken away in a sense. God, it's hard. And pregnant. We're all fucking crazy when we're now 30 weeks pregnant anyway, like that on its own without all this extra stuff is fucking intense. Yeah. It's hard enough to deal with, like, honestly, you're very inspiring.
I don't even care if you tell us anything else. I'm just, hats off. Respect and inspired by you purely for surviving that, like, that on its own is amazing.
Rah: And even though I'm sure, um, you'll Be feeling like that you're not inspirational because you had no choice but to keep going because we
Cassandra: survive Yeah
Rah: Yeah.
Yeah.
Cassandra: Like what was my option? You know, I definitely think if I wasn't pregnant, it could have definitely been a different story.
Rah: Yeah.
Cassandra: For sure. Um, so again, it's the reflecting on the divine timing of it all and how it was delivered. Um, you know, I realize that now, um, that being pregnant was something that really sort of did, did keep me going, you know, and, and, and even now as well, like as much as pay is.
shithead a lot of the time, when I get to look at him, it's just like, yeah, man, you're a cool little friend. So he's what, nine? He's nine.
Emily: Yeah. Yeah. Look, I mean, they, the kids. When you're, even when you're pregnant, like it's, it's a bit insane how suddenly the only thing that ever matters, the only thing that matters is what's inside you and, and who you're creating and that little person and that no matter how badly everything else feels and how shit life is and you will take that shit 65 zillion times more in order to keep this little human alive and well.
Cassandra: Yeah.
Emily: It's such a weird kind of, um, mentality shift. I think when you really, when it really rams home, I think when you suddenly realize that. This person means more than literally breathing to you. It's a weird, it's a weird reality. I'd take a bullet for my son. Oh yeah, God, but like, you know, exactly right.
Like I would, you know, I had a lot of mental health issues before I got pregnant and the mindset shift around that is, is huge. It's a really big thing. And suddenly all those things that weren't so bearable before. You can bear because it means protecting them.
Cassandra: The transition from, like, maiden to mother is, like, is a real thing.
Like, it's full on, you know, and there is so much shift in your, in your biology. You know, there is such a physical shift in your biology when you come, and even if, and again, this isn't even if you've just physically had a child, like I've seen this happen with, you know, friends who have become foster parents or adopted and things like that.
It's just that innate instinct of going from maiden to mother. That really kicks in and, and takes over and I think in those ways as well, it's been a, it's been a strength and a lesson that has now transferred into business, you know, and I look at it now as well with where I am in business and what I've gone through in business, um, and where I'm like, I'm right at the precipice of another level up phase and.
I wouldn't be who I am or where I am, or capable of what I am, if these experiences hadn't happened for me.
Christine: Oh my god, no. They craft who you are. And they certainly do, and I know, you know, there's a big thing about, you know, resilience and, and what not. So it does, it does create a lot of personal and professional resilience in you going through, um, Some, you know, the personal and business like trials and tribulations and, and journeys.
Um, and yes, would you like to have not gone through any of this shit? Of course, nobody wants adversity and yucky times and death and whatever the, you know, the negative, um, event is, but I tell you what, I think, you know, you talk about, you can't grow in business unless you grow personally and the growth that can come from, from that.
And it doesn't mean that I'm growing any more than you are because my situation was worse. It's not that it's just that, you know, any, anything. Anything that you go through that's negative, positivity in some aspect has to come out from it. Otherwise, why did we do it? Why did we go through it? That's what I think, you know?
Cassandra: You can't have dark without light.
Christine: No. You
Rah: can't have the rainbow without the rain,
Emily: etc. Yes. I have tattooed on the back of my shoulder blade, I've got tattooed through every dark night there is a brighter day. And I've had that for that exact reason, you know. There's always, it's the merry go round that keeps on merrying.
And it's, it's hard as a parent too, to know that in order to create well rounded children and have kids that are going to be as emotionally intelligent as they possibly be and to be able to have that You know, that experience, they have to experience this kind of stuff, and it's scary when all you want to do is just lock them in a cupboard and never let them out to have that kind of pain that may come from these
Rah: experiences.
And also so that they don't damage the walls and the carpet and, you know, wee on the floor, like, you know, poo in the pool, as my child did recently. Oh, delightful. The big brown shark came. Oh dear.
Christine: We've, we've, we've got a trail of, um, fists. prints in the gyprock that leads from the kitchen all the way to Sun and Air's bedroom from one angry night 10 years ago or something like that, you know, it's, it's just, you know, marks the route
Cassandra: that night, you know.
And that's for me as well, like being that parent for Franklin, like in him being born, like he would have experienced grief whilst in the womb because I was it. And then even for him now coming into this space of, um, Like, everyone's like, oh, he's so aware and he's so this and like, because I'm not gonna, I'm not sugarcoating the reality of his world.
No. Like, I don't sugarcoat it for myself, so I'm not gonna sugarcoat it for him. Um, and I think that's also as well, like, bringing this back to business. That is one thing that a lot of people, um, who I work with, they're like, it's so good. You, you're not afraid to share your mistakes. Mmm. You're not afraid to sugarcoat shit.
And, for me, it's like, well, why not? That's really what happened. Like, after my motorcycle accident, I had one salon and I was opening a second location. At the time, I had about seven or eight team members. And after my motorcycle accident, uncovering the fact that I reopened my salons purely to mask my grief and run from my grief, um, I then got addicted to painkillers.
Oh. And I was, like, a terrible boss. I was a horrendous boss. I was a horrendous employee. I was a terrible business owner. And I share that story often on all of those mistakes that I made. Because then I can share the lesson.
Christine: Exactly. So important. And there's
Emily: so much power in just like owning it, you know.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah. But if you're coaching someone or, you know, delivering therapy, um, in this case as someone from the business perspective is that you, you talking very openly about this is what they, people need to hear because you're not just quoting from a manual because you went to class some one day. It's like, you know, it's life.
skills, life journey. It's real and truth and dirty. Exactly. Exactly. Learn from my mistakes or let me help you, you know, recover from something
Emily: like, and especially when we live in such a world now where social media takes over and everything's expected to have a certain, you know, happy lab, beautiful rainbows, like, you know, all of that kind of shit that you see on socials.
So formulated and so specifically designs like there is so much power in just I know for me the thing I loved about look like when we looked you up properly was just how goddamn authentic you are like you are who you are and you give no shits about it. And I just love that. And like that's something that I, I personally gravitate to because it's how I want to be with myself too.
And it helps seeing other people do that to then be like, well, like to try and shake off some of my own insecurity. And it's. I love it. It's just, it's so powerful and I think that's the best way to, personally I think it's one of the best ways to have, especially raising a kid, because he will be so well rounded because he'll just, they'll be, you know, he just, he'll be who he is and that's, that's fine.
That's all he has to be.
Cassandra: Yeah.
Emily: And I love that. It's amazing.
Cassandra: And that's. It goes for all of us. We only have to be ourselves.
Emily: I know it's hard because like we all have different upbringings and we all have different insecurities that come from those different upbringings and whatever they might be and you know I come from a very passive aggressive we have to be perceived in a certain way type of family.
So I was like the scum of the earth when I got tattooed for the first time because God forbid. I look like trash now
Christine: and
Emily: little things like that, you know, and I have ricocheted from that and I have also got a full fucking arm done. So, you know, the rebellious part of me is like, well, fuck you. I'm just going to tattoo my whole body.
Um, so it's, it's those little things, you know, like we just have to just find who we are. It's, and everyone's, you're right. Everyone's like it. And it's. It's a superpower when you can be able to just, it's also why I love Rah very much. One of the first things I loved about Rah was just, she is who she is.
And I just, I love that. There's so much power to it. And it's, yeah. And she's like, I find myself sometimes sitting there going, what would Rah do? Oh my God, really? Oh
Cassandra: my God. A
Emily: lot of the time. Be careful. Be careful thinking like that. That's why I love it. It's also funny.
Cassandra: It's not even about like you, it's being who you are and accepting.
All of it, like the bad, you know, the ugly, as they say, it's like Robbie Williams just did that fucking, um, accepting the award and he's like, literally, I would like to thank depression, alcoholism, like drug
Rah: addiction, ADHD, you know,
Cassandra: and that's the reality of it. Like all of those things are part of you and what make you,
Christine: you
Cassandra: and, um.
I can't remember if I was saying this before we started recording, but for me, learning how I work best and um, what works for me has benefited my business. You know, knowing, like one, working with my actual hormonal cycle, so knowing what weeks to push, what weeks not to push, what weeks to people and not people, um, what weeks to have lots of snacks, like, um, really important.
So my actual physical, like menstrual cycle, working that into business has been really powerful. Then I also work with, you know, um, being very spiritually connected, the moon cycle that impacts how I work as well. Cause it impacts how I sleep. Um, but then, like I said earlier as well, it was like, for me, focusing on one business.
Was terrible, I couldn't get anything done when I only had one business to focus on. So I now know for me having multiple projects is more productive for me in business than it is having one project. So part of having that authenticity and that confidence comes from a space of actually taking the time to get to know yourself.
It's not fucking fun.
Emily: I can imagine. We all have things we try and, you know, ignore. Denial is a river.
Rah: As Dochi says.
Christine: Well, I was thinking I should work, I can't work from my perimenopausal cycle because I want to kill lots of people. Um, kind of thing. Pattern? What
Rah: pattern? Yeah. Burn everything.
Cassandra: Oh, my God, actually, you can do this. You can do this in the oven. You can totally burn people to death in your office. Okay. I saw it all.
So what they did is they put this video background on their laptop of a fire and then drew a little brick fireplace. And put that in front of it, and then they drew, like, little pictures of the people they wanted to put into the fire, and then they cut out some people into the fake laptop fire. That's
Emily: amazing.
Cassandra: I'd be the kind of person that would just set a
Emily: fire in my bin and then probably make the entire building be evacuated.
Christine: That's more my style. I'm going to go make some effing cheese tonight, Ben, I think. Absolutely. I was looking recently at one of those,
Emily: um, those like smash rooms where you can just go break shit.
And I was looking at it being like, I don't think this is going to be enough for me. Like, I think I need them to like bring me a car or something that I could just
Rah: go to town on. Not quite going to hit the spot. Yeah, you need to go full Beyonce lemonade. Yep.
Emily: Well, keep telling us about your journey. Like what, how did you?
You know, how did you keep going from that and did it change where you thought you wanted to be as well with business? Like I know you have multiples of them because I love that and it's the juggle, but did it all, did it fundamentally change the path that you were kind of already on in terms of your business?
Cassandra: Oh, for sure. So I definitely had a vision of like, you know, multiple salons, training academies, like I really thought like hair and beauty, like that industry was where it was at. Um, I had a hair extension, um, business at the time I was like importing and stocking salons. I had like 80 stockers worldwide with hair extensions.
So it's like, I really thought that hair and beauty was it for me. And now I'm reflecting and I'm realising that that was actually just the start. That was actually just the start on learning how I can help people. Um, and I'm, you know, knowing that these experiences happened for me and pushed me further and faster into what it is that I do now, um, with the different ways that I could help people.
So I guess it's that natural progression. And for lack of a better term, a healer. Um, I don't think anyone needs to be healed. Like, we, I don't like that term, but basically that's where it's at. Um, I was kind of always that sort of a person, but my tools at the time happened to be a hairdryer and a tint brush, you know?
And so now, um, with the experience of grief and living with it and learning from it, I realized that there was more that I could do. Um, then just doing hair and you don't have to counseling on the side now into really sitting down with the person and really helping them, taking them on their journey. Um, I did actually have a, um, whole brand and service a little while ago called herapy.
Yeah, so at the woo woo shed you can come get your hair done, and then we would do a therapy session. We would do like a little fire ritual, because hair, hair does retain energy and things like that. So it was a whole process that we did, um, around therapy, but my body just, I, it just can't with the hair.
No. It just doesn't sustain the physical impact. Um, but now I work in the space of helping people essentially with their own personal Authenticity, which then translates into branding.
Christine: Yep.
Cassandra: So, I'm kind of still working in that fashion, that hair and beauty space, but on a deeper level now.
Christine: Mm.
Cassandra: So, that natural progression was it, it, yeah, it really was just kind of like a natural progression, but again, coming back to that piece of just asking for help.
When shit got hard, I just didn't let myself carry the burden. And, um, I think that's where, yeah, so much of us get stuck is that, that piece of asking for help. And I'm now at the space as well as it's, it's the asking for help, but then it's the being open to receive it. Very much so.
Christine: Two different things, aren't they?
Very, you know, you know, asking. Asking for help, you can actually think, well, yeah, of course I'm going to be wanting it. Um, but yeah, they're very two different mindsets because often, you know, sometimes the, the help is brutally honest and, and none of us like things to be brutally honest if it's showing up to be, and I don't want to say this, I can't think of the word to use, but if it's a fault in something that you're doing or believing in and, um, You know, we don't want to see, be seen to be the problem or whatever, but if we're not open, open to that, we can't move through the block or whatever it is that's standing in your way.
of growth and progress personally and professionally.
Cassandra: It's that piece of control again.
Christine: Yeah. If you're
Cassandra: open to receive help, then you have to surrender to it and allow it however it comes. Yes. You can't then, if you're fully receiving, you can't then be controlling, um, The way the help's delivered.
Emily: Yes, it's funny, now you're going to have me thinking about this the rest of the day.
Yeah.
Christine: So if, if someone's coming to you, um, fallen a little bit, bit out of, Love with their business, but obviously, you know, none of us want to go and get a job or anything like that.
Cassandra: I will be the worst employee. Oh,
Christine: well, you know. Um, but what's, um, I don't know, what's some immediate stuff you say to, uh, business owners who come to you that, you know, say, just say it's me.
I'm tired and, and I'm a bit unmotivated and what not. She's secretly telling me she's tired of our business. Awkward. Pess.
Emily: You and I might need to leave. It's cool. We often feel the same time, so it's okay. We're both tired. You guys are on a bit of a grind. Chronically tired. Well, this is in fact, um, a month.
Yeah, I think it is. I think it is.
Christine: But, but, but yeah, like, you know, I don't even know if I'm asking the right thing, but yeah, what do you, how do you start with somebody who just needs help? They need to fall back in love with what they do and their business and, and, and stuff. How do you get started with them?
Cassandra: Yeah, the biggest thing I find and from working with, with others and what they've kind of said to me, um, Is I work in the here and now, none of my programs or like or anything like that have like sort of set structures. Like there's been a lot of courses where I'll go and do it like this month we're only working on this.
And like that's not how life works, you know, like this month I need to work on this part because this is what's alive right now. So let's work through that. So a lot of the time, um, a lot of people are coming to me and there is that definitely that exhaustion. Probably getting pretty close to burnout, if not already at it.
But it's also like, they can see what they want next, but then there's a block, and they don't know how to get to it. And so, for a lot of the time, it's really unpacking the What the block is like how deep does the block actually run? Yep Who's for me like I started businesses like brick and mortar businesses.
I started in 2009 and for years I would keep going and going and going and going and going and opening new businesses and all of this And then all of a sudden after glenn's passing I started to be met with this fear of success
Christine: Yep,
Cassandra: and so for me I was like where the fuck is this coming from my family supports me Like there's so much support around me.
I don't understand why I'm stopping myself from going to the next level. So on this particular moment, it was past life aggression. So, the block had actually come from past life experience. For a lot of people, it can be from things that people have said to them. You know, so it's really going into the energetics of what's actually going on.
Because the surface, the surface is, I'm tired.
Christine: Yep.
Cassandra: Okay, so why are you tired?
Christine: Yep.
Cassandra: Right? Or, it's like, oh, I don't really love my business anymore. Okay, that's the surface level. So we want to really unpack it. Yeah, go into the energetics of it. And really it's like, who does this belong to? Like, do you not love your business anymore because you've had more than one person maybe say that's not a good idea?
Christine: And then all of
Cassandra: a sudden you claim that as your own, you know? Or are you actually just physically tired?
Christine: Yeah.
Cassandra: And you need to change some energetics and things like that. Like, I've just recently been diagnosed with diabetes.
Christine: Yep.
Cassandra: And I wanted the physical symptoms in my body, I wanted the pain, I wanted it to be business related.
I wanted it to be because I was out of alignment or I was burning out or I wanted it to be that because then it was an outside factor that I could control.
Christine: Yep. Yep.
Cassandra: I could manage it and create it. So then when I got all the blood tests and she's like, it's not celiac, it's not. Hormones, it's not thyroid, it's not this, it's not that, it's not that, it's, it's this, it's diabetes.
I was like, fuck, I can control that and I can manage that, but it was, it's the physical me that I have to work on, whereas I will work on my business in a heartbeat.
Christine: Yeah, yep. Yep, I hear you saying.
Cassandra: Yeah, man, now I have to work on myself. So I have to therapise myself through this process. And like, what would I say to a client?
And so that's, that's kind of what it is. It's like, when, when you come to me. We sit down and we look at the bigger picture and the thing is, is the picture is way beyond you and your business.
Emily: Yeah, yeah. Cool. Thank you. I've got, uh, one more question before we probably have to wrap it up and I do think we may need a bit of a part two.
Oh,
Christine: a part two is definitely on the cards. We haven't even touched really our
Emily: questions that way. Um, what advice would you give to business owners who are going through a major personal challenges while they are trying to get their business running and generally their shit together? Yeah.
Cassandra: Yeah. Um, don't allow your business.
Or your professionalism to be the block that stops you from feeling, you know, like there's been some scenarios where I'm like, I've just got to suck it up. Like, okay, actually this is a perfect example. On Friday was the 10 year anniversary of mine and Glenn's wedding.
Emily: Wow. Yeah.
Cassandra: And there was an event that I was invited to speak at, and so I was like, nah, nah.
Oh, no, it's gonna be a shit day. Oh, no, it's gonna be too hard. I'm like, no, uh uh, like, I can't continue for the rest of my life letting go of opportunities just because it happens to be a particular day in time.
Christine: Yep.
Cassandra: Or, you know, and I was very grateful. It was a very intimate experience. And I got to be there and be myself.
I didn't have to mask or anything like that because I did know a lot of the women there. And so I was able to openly share my emotions with that. Um, but don't lock what you need to feel. Because that will hold you back, and that will actually cause more damage than you actually just allowing yourself to feel when you need to feel.
Fair enough, maybe you can't burst into tears in the middle of a boardroom.
Emily: I've done that, but yeah. God forbid, uh, any white male will be like, oh, you and your emotions. Fuck, feelings, gross. I know.
Cassandra: But allow yourself, yeah, allow yourself to feel them as frequently as you can. Because you'll be able to actually grow through them quicker.
If you feel 'em.
Christine: Yeah, yeah. Bottling that works. That probably
Cassandra: was the, yeah, and I think that was the biggest thing. Again, I feel probably for me being in the hair and beauty industry as well, like I could still do my job with emotions. Um, you know, I had like a lot of clients who were like, that's fine, we don't need to talk.
I'm like, excellent.
Christine: But even
Cassandra: for me now, like I've been like, I've just come out of, you know, a big couple of months of a space of, you know, depression that really kicked in at the end of the year last year. And I still have clients. I still had shit to do. I still had businesses that were running. I'm about to launch to, like, a whole new business and a whole new program.
Like, I still had shit that needed to be done. But I was upfront and honest with my clients.
Christine: Yeah, same. Um,
Cassandra: and just said, look, you know. I'm going through this, so I might not be exactly like you're used to, but I can still show up for you and hold space and help you. Um, and we've probably done some of the best work over the past couple of months.
Christine: Brilliant.
Cassandra: Like, which is
Emily: interesting. I would imagine though, that you're, um, you being really raw about what's going on with you will actually, it almost encourages others to Bring that to the table themselves as well.
Cassandra: Yeah, it's permission, isn't it? Yeah, it is. We all sit here and hover for this permission piece when the only person who needs to give you permission is you.
So, I think that's been the biggest things that are, that have worked effectively for me while still working and building businesses with grief and things like depression and all of that kind of stuff. Is just allowing it.
Christine: Yeah.
Cassandra: Like the more you fight it, the longer it hangs around. You know, I always envision like friggin Stewie from Buddy Family Guy.
Family Guy. Of like the, Lois, Lois, Lois, Lois, Mum, Mum, Mum, Mum, Lois, Lois. Oh, that's the best scene. And that's what I envision, like those emotions and that grief, they are going to continue. to do that until you actually finally acknowledge them.
Emily: Yeah. And I know we're all fully grown adults, but the movie Inside Out is absolutely fucking gold for a really simplified and visual explanation as to what sometimes our heads can look like.
It's really simplified. Like, I'm sat there going, there's some adults I reckon that need to see this.
Rah: There's a reason I still haven't watched it because I just, I feel like I need to be ready and I need to have the space afterwards to process It's everything that happens in that movie. Yes. It's like, Oh, I'm going to wait and give that space.
It's fascinating. Yes. Holding space for that a la Wicked. You'll get there. You'll get there.
Christine: Yes. Exactly.
Emily: We probably should wrap it up. And I do know you do a lot of event work as well and participate in a lot of events too. So it'd be good to actually, if you tell us what stuff's coming up, so people in the areas that may be listening could be something that they might jump on and stuff like that too.
Cassandra: So, um, like have a really, really fucking big thing in the works at the moment. I am actually in the process of, um, securing a location to open. Um, a hub, so it's going to be called the Entrepreneurs Playground. Ooh, I like
Rah: that. I like that. Yeah, so
Cassandra: it's basically going to be a co working space, um, somewhere that I can host my own events rather than having to hire a place every month.
All of that
Emily: kind of thing. I think you've just described what, uh, the big blue sky dream we've got as the Women in Business Collective. Yeah. It's exactly what we want to do with ours. It sounds so amazing.
Cassandra: So,
Emily: um,
Cassandra: I run Um, every month I run what's called Friday Night Business. Um, there isn't one this month because I'm actually hosting a retreat at the end of the month.
Um, but yeah, I run a networking event called Friday Night Business. It's just fun. It's not pretentious, hey, here's my business card kind of networking. Yeah, good. Very chill. Um, then every month I run a Biz Brunch, which is more of like a sit down workshop kind of event, but it's networking. So I'm really big on just bringing.
People together like that's where the growth is. That's where the learning is. That's where the connection is.
Christine: Yeah
Cassandra: So I've got that and then the end of March. I'm actually launch launching a really cool intimate program Which we called messy business. So really focusing on on the realness and the rawness of business.
So yeah,
Emily: I love that Messy business We'll get all the links so we can link them in our show notes
Christine: and put them
Emily: everywhere as well.
Christine: Yeah, absolutely. In the meantime, I'm going to ask you a question, Cass. I'm going to use Sunday as the day of the week because it's, you know, if I, you know, it's been an ideal day to have off, but say it's Sunday and you've got no responsibilities in the world.
No one's calling for you. Um. How would you spend your ideal day? The one that makes you happy, brings you such joy and fulfillment, or feeds, you know, fills your cup, feeds your soul, that kind of thing. What is your, um, what's your ideal day?
Cassandra: Yeah, outside, smoke a joint and read some Smut. Love it. Yeah. I love how
Emily: specific that was too.
Love it. Very specific. That was so great. I was child free. Fabulous. Hilariously, I was also reading Smart over the weekend as well. I've started,
Christine: I've
Cassandra: just, I've just merged into Audible, like, I was not really big on the whole, like, audiobooks, and so now I'm like, nah. I was losing like 12 hours a day sitting down and reading and being like, oh, I'm being productive.
No, you're not, bitch, you're being lazy. Like, so now I go to Audible and I'll clean while I'm like listening to . Do you subscribe to Quinn? No, that one's been recommended to me. Yeah.
Rah: Yeah. It's a very good app. . Yeah. Let's just say. Well, anyway, but yeah, thank you so much for being Yeah. Thank you so much for being who you are and for reaching out when you did because yeah, it totally, it hit home for us.
And thank you for joining
Christine: us. Oh, I'm so grateful. And I'm, yeah, I'm back anytime. Cassandra Barrie.
Rah: Thank you so much. So much. It was awesome. Your camera's cut out. So maybe your computer's dropped her microphone. But yes. Fucking awesome. Yes. Thanks for listening, everyone. Despite the technology not wanting to behave.
We'll catch you next time. Love you.
Christine: Absolutely. Peace out.
Rah: All right. Bye.
